A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS!

[True Southron]

Thanks Kiwibird. Someone started a discussion on precisely this topic on the exact same day I posted that message.

[natalienoo]

I'm afraid I've just had a "skip to the end" moment after reading the first couple of pages of this thread. I intend to catch myself up with your lovely posts and theories, but having just finished the book itself, this thread is more than my little mind cares to take in at the moment

I enjoyed A Dance with Dragons, and am excited with where the story will go from here. Bran, Brienne and Arya interest me especially. Character queries aside, my only fear is that Martin will get lost himself with all the sub-storylines he's created. This fear is most likely unfounded, but attempting to sift through A Wheel of Time all those years ago has left a lasting uneasiness within me.

[Yog-Sothoth]

Did anyone get a chill when they read Ramsay's letter to Jon? GRRM really knows how to create a vicious character that can get under you skin, literally.

Thank god I've never encountered a real person like that.

[NenadBulaja]

Thank god I've never encountered a real person like that.

Not to scare you, but you may very well met real person like that, you only didn't realize it! (how's that for sending chill down your spine?)

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by C Of K

Oh, Stannis isn't all that admirable. But he's a great character. Probably my favorite now that Robert is dead. He complains endlessly. His wife has a mustache, his daughter grayscale, he believes he's been slighted by every man who ever lived. He has all the personality of a lobster. And he has a glowing sword and a beautiful priestess by his side, telling him that it is the duty of the realm to crown him king of Westeros. So he holds the weapon high as he gives completely uninspiring speeches about the responsibilities of his subjects.



This is the best explanation I've heard for why Tyrion and Dany could not meet in Dance. They weren't ready for each other. Good point.

stannis is dead and melissandre will support jon snow

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by BaDHaBiTt

Yes I knew that this would fill in the gaps. However, in MY opinion these gaps could have been filled in about 200 pages. The rest could have been advancing. I mean, about halfway in the book the story caught up with the previous book, yet nothing happened.

And I don't believe they're dead, that's why I said presumed dead. But if they're not dead then the only thing new in this book is another Targaryan.

stannis is dead and so is quentyn martell

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by BaDHaBiTt

True. The wall kicked ass most of the time, but still, the events unfolds too slowly.

I may be the only one who likes Stannis though.... I don't want him to be dead. And yes, Davos is also good.

I also liked Theon's parts, and Ramsay is a good villain, but maybe too shallow a character. But hey - sometimes we need someone to hate.

With all this said, I think that GRRM has set the pieces for the next book in place quite good, except for Dany who still is lost in nowhere. I hope she dies.

i also liked stannis but he is dead

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by BaDHaBiTt

in 1000 pages GRRM advanced the story on 2 important points. 1: Another Targaryen. 2: Jon Snow and Stannis are presumed dead.

Dany is still far from Westeros, Jaime did basically nothing, Tyrion rides a pig, Arya did nothing, Sansa wasn't even in the book, and Littlefinger was also absent.

Call me stupid, but that's not very much development for 1000 pages.

stupid

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by KiwiBird

Besides Dany mucking up, and Jon presumed death, this book was all about Aegon.

Aegon will be a main character in the nxt book and hopefully he will take back the iron throne

[Oberyn]

Originally Posted by Needle

Having just finished re-read I felt the need to reevaluate. Upon first reading, I enjoyed DWD but had a lot of complaints as well. I think the balance has shifted somewhat now. Fewer complaints, more enjoyment! As some have said I think the long wait colored my expectations and not for the better!

Kinda working from best to least liked.

I'll start with my girl Arya! I really had not expected to see her in DWD so was pleased to see her at all. Very much enjoyed her story line, she is moving right along. Still not sure where exactly she is going, but when she gets there look out world! She is honing skills she has always possessed. She will be able to go anywhere, be anyone, she is also learning to use her warg abilities which before where only present in her dreams.

Some of the smaller storylines may have been the best!
Davos. praise the seven!, alive and well off to find Rickon! Love him! He and Selmy would be the first of my Queensgaurd!

Lord Manderly, who would have thought it! Freys falling out left and right around him, love it!

That Bravoosi banker is more than he seems. I can buy him just showing up once but he strolls around in the storms of winter like he is going to a spring picnic in the park!

My next best, help me you old Gods!, is Theon/Reek! I never really disliked Theon, felt more sorry for him than anything. His situation was forced on him by the generations before, how he dealt with may not have been perfect but who's would be! He certainly didn't deserve Ramsey! Is it possible he (with Asha's help) can take the Iron Islands back from Euron before dying the heroic death I definitely see in his future?

Jon, honestly for the most part I am very proud of Jon! He has made a lot of tough choices that others (Mormont, Ned or anyone else in the NW) could not have made. In hindsight I think it was part of why Ned had to die, if he was sent to the wall, with Mormont's death he would surely have been elected commander, and could not have made some of the clearly needed choices. Jon had to bring in the wildlings, he needs men, alive, fighting for men, not dead fighting against them! He sent his friends away for two reasons, he can trust them out off his sight and he cannot be their friend anymore, he must be their commander. The only real commander mistake I see is the ships to Hardhome (is that the place I mean, can't remember the name?) waste of time and resources and more lives. On a personal level, as someone said, when will these Starks learn that when they start locking up their wolves bad things happen! Cat got it with Bran and the rest of them should have too! Dany found it out as well, she was doing just fine till she chained her dragons!

Not sure how I feel about Stannis. He is doing many of the right things for the wrong reasons, does that make it right? Mel has used him terribly, what becomes of him when she finally figures out she is backing the wrong horse for AA reborn?

Tyrion, what of Tyrion? Still disappointed with this part of the story for him. I with some here that Penny was neccessary to bring home to him the cost to others for some of his actions yet I feel most of those actions he is feeling the pain of where done by others. I see why GRRM held him back from Dany, had he reached her before she flew off on Drogon he would have gotten the same reception as Quentyn, probable worse, as a Lannister she may very well have feed him to the dragons!

Which brings me to Dany, hated this part of the story, GRRM made her into quite the wimp! Can see it may have been needed to show the opposite side from most leaders as in what happens when the person at the top cares a bit too much about the little people. But did it need to take so long, don't think so! Chaining the dragons bah! Marrying someone because he got the harpies to stop killing bah! All that proves is he is The Harpy and you can hang him now with a clear conscience! Just have to hope she has now gotten her stuff together (with Drogon's help) and can get down to it!

Bran, was very pleased that he has found his niche just sad that it may well mean spending his life as a tree! I really hope this is not true, that he is strong enough for that to not be needed, he deserves better, but we know how GRRM can be, bittersweet anyone?

Has Cersei learned her lesson? As much as we can hope she has, I just don't think so! Actually I hope she hasn't so i don't have to feel sorry for her when she gets her's!

Anyway guess i'm done for now, still more to say but since I have already written a book here, will give you all a break for now! Please let me now what you think!

it wud be nice if Bran got his legs back .. and i agree with you abt dany .

[Tywin]

Stannis is not dead.

[Oberyn]

ill wager .. he is dead :-x

[Timba]

SPOILER**************

Originally Posted by Oberyn

ill wager .. he is dead :-x

You will lose. Check out GRRM's page for a treat from the next book, for a dead man he is giving a lot of orders and sure seems to be in charge.

[crooksy73]

Have read the next instsll on GRRM's site and if you ask me that is set when Stannis WAS still alive. I think it was set in the past before the message was sent to Jon and I think he is now dead.

[Timba]

Originally Posted by crooksy73

Have read the next instsll on GRRM's site and if you ask me that is set when Stannis WAS still alive. I think it was set in the past before the message was sent to Jon and I think he is now dead.

I found nothing to indicate it was set in the past but then there was nothing to indicate it was not either, guess we will just have to wait and see. I am not sure I believe anything said in the message to Jon.