A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! - Page 11 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Mesanna · 16th August 2011, 11:03 PM

I think the general assumption is that Ser Robert has no head and you'll never see him take his helmet off. Creeeeepy!

On the Meereense knot, I tend to think that it's what happens in the next book that will show us how GRRM 'untied' it. When you take the timeline into account, only the last two or three hundred pages of ADWD actually moved ahead of the timeline of AFFC, so we're only really starting to see how things will play out. I need to go re-read Barristan Selmy's POVs, since he was supposedly one of the characters GRRM used to move the plot forward. I wonder if there might be any hidden clues as to where the story might be going in there.

Also, welcome Seferbo! Always nice to have a new face in the forums

Lady of Winterfell · 16th August 2011, 11:15 PM

Well if the knot was timing and getting the right characters in the right places in relation to Dany, than I see now why he was going to have a time gap between ASOS and ADWD. Assuming he would have kept that gap, those people would be with Dany at the beginning of the book following ASOS (I assume that was originally ADWD)? It would make sense since this book was pretty much a bunch of people traveling to get there, but they still never made it there (aside from Quentyn).

hadd · 17th August 2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesanna

I think the general assumption is that Ser Robert has no head and you'll never see him take his helmet off. Creeeeepy!

On the Meereense knot, I tend to think that it's what happens in the next book that will show us how GRRM 'untied' it. When you take the timeline into account, only the last two or three hundred pages of ADWD actually moved ahead of the timeline of AFFC, so we're only really starting to see how things will play out. I need to go re-read Barristan Selmy's POVs, since he was supposedly one of the characters GRRM used to move the plot forward. I wonder if there might be any hidden clues as to where the story might be going in there.

Also, welcome Seferbo! Always nice to have a new face in the forums

Well without Barristan's POV we wouldn't have basically any idea what happened to Quentyn('s body), to Arch and Dink, what the Brazen Beasts were going to do etc.
Also I imagine that there's going to be battle at Meereen's walls and Dany might get there leading a new Khalasar?
That's how it feels like at least right now.

Mesanna · 17th August 2011, 02:33 PM

I so need to read ADWD again. I whizzed through it first time, and it was a lot to take in, so yeah I didn't take in that we got all that from Barristan!

I'm wondering how the Khalasar that Dany meets at the end will feel about her. It seems to go against their traditions to accept her as anything other than the widow of a deceased Khal, who should be sent to live with the crones at that place I can't remember the name of LOL! I suppose the presence of dragons might change a few minds though.

Gazz · 18th August 2011, 04:27 PM

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I'll suggest that this analogy is the best and closest thing for what I felt when reading "A Dance with Dragons".

It was like being at a barbecue with all your best friends. The sun was shining, all of your pals were there, and the atmosphere was all spot on. The host is laughing and joking, and turning over some burgers on a grill, and they look DELICIOUS, and it's fantastic, and you get a beer or two to start, and you're joking, and then the host brings you over some salad, and some sausages. He pretends he's going to take them away, but then gives you them, with a little chuckle, and you laugh a little at the hosts tendency to always pull the same trick (althought you're secretly a little bit tired, it isn't as fun or funny when he does it every single time he pulls a plate over) And sure, they're tasty, but you secretly really just want a burger, but you can wait a little while. They're still simmering, and he makes a little joke and goes back to them and turns them over and you carry on laughing and joking with your friends.

And then the sun goes down, and it's still nice but you wonder when the burgers are going to be brought over. And the host brings you over some more sausages and salad, and yeah, you think they're nice, but all you want now is a f******g burger, and you can smell them, you can hear them SIZZLING, surely they must be ready by now. You finish your sausages and salad, and laugh and joke, and the stars are out, and then you get some more sausages and salad, but you don't want any sausages or salad. In fact, though they're nice, and if they were all you expected, they'd be fine, but the burgers are RIGHT THERE. And then, just as you think you won't get a burger, you finally, finally get one brought over by the host. But all he gives you is a bite, and then you have to go home.

Left me feeling a bit seen off. One burger would have been enough, but all we got was salad and sausages (and maybe a bite at the end).

I'm secretly left in a bit of limbo here. Not really sure where GRRM is going to go with all this, if he is going to go down the main antagonist route after all. There are a lot of factions left to resolve (and a lot of burgers to eat), for instance the factions I can see developing more in the next book are:

1 - the White Walkers. Agenda unknown?
2 - the Northmen, led by Jon Snow (reborn as Azor Azai?)
3 - the Southrons, led by the clergy of the Seven + Cersei + Highgarden.
4 - Aegon and the Golden Company
5 - The Ironmen, Euron + Dragons/actual Kraken
6 - Daenyrs + Khal Phono + a lot of sellswords

Not really rooting for anyone here, but I suspect that the White Walkers might well be tied in with Mance Rayder and the Ironmen, and if they are, they'll be a formiddable pairing.

Wiggum · 18th August 2011, 06:33 PM

Lol, great analogy Gazz.

JagLover · 18th August 2011, 07:13 PM

I see over on the TV forum that GRRM thinks they should devote three seasons to AFFC and ADWD combined. If HBO were foolish enough to do so their viewing figures will be down to only hardcore fans by the end.

If I were them I would combine the two books in one season and cut out all the filler, and most of the new characters who, I doubt, will prove of any major significance in the end. Moreover if WOW has been released by then, bring in the resolution of the Mereen situation to finish the season. Only then will the season come close to matching what has gone before.

Lady of Winterfell · 18th August 2011, 09:28 PM

I seriously cannot imagine 3 season being needed for AFFC and ADWD. I think 1 season would be sufficient. Although if they wanted to allow Martin more time to write books (before the TV series catches up), then they could possible make it 2.

TPA · 19th August 2011, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazz

...and yeah, you think they're nice, but all you want now is a f******g burger, and you can smell them, you can hear them SIZZLING, surely they must be ready by now.

OH HOW I CAN IDENTIFY WITH THIS

I mean, the title of the book never even happened in the book.

The winds of winter is going to end with snow finally reaching the neck, and a dream of spring will occur when winter finally sets in.

The next book should be dinner and a movie with dragons, followed by the winds of winter, then winds as solstice is nearing, then winds buried neck deep in snow, and finally a dream of spring will be released about the time my grandchildren are retiring.

Culhwch · 19th August 2011, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPA

I mean, the title of the book never even happened in the book.

Oh, I don't know, Quentyn had a merry little dance with the dragons. The only problem was, they most definitely took the lead.

C Of K · 19th August 2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagLover

I see over on the TV forum that GRRM thinks they should devote three seasons to AFFC and ADWD combined. If HBO were foolish enough to do so their viewing figures will be down to only hardcore fans by the end.

If I were them I would combine the two books in one season and cut out all the filler, and most of the new characters who, I doubt, will prove of any major significance in the end. Moreover if WOW has been released by then, bring in the resolution of the Mereen situation to finish the season. Only then will the season come close to matching what has gone before.

All I can say is, if they can leave the Blackfish out of the entire first season, they can leave a lot of the filler in those 2 books on the chopping block. So far as I can tell, Cersei's relationship with Taena Merriweather can be condensed into 1 or 2 scenes. I don't need to see them in bed together. It's not likely that those two books will get 3 seasons.They have to please HBO, and I'm certain HBO doesn't want their show to get the same reviews that those two books have gotten from readers.

I can't see them settling for, "Oh, those first 3 seasons were awesome. These last 3? Not so much, but still better than anything else out there." 2 seasons is all those books need.

hadd · 19th August 2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Of K

All I can say is, if they can leave the Blackfish out of the entire first season, they can leave a lot of the filler in those 2 books on the chopping block. So far as I can tell, Cersei's relationship with Taena Merriweather can be condensed into 1 or 2 scenes. I don't need to see them in bed together. It's not likely that those two books will get 3 seasons.They have to please HBO, and I'm certain HBO doesn't want their show to get the same reviews that those two books have gotten from readers.

I can't see them settling for, "Oh, those first 3 seasons were awesome. These last 3? Not so much, but still better than anything else out there." 2 seasons is all those books need.

Only book in the series so far that could REALLY use more than 1 season per book is ASOS. And that's it.

viZion · 19th August 2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Of K

I don't need to see them in bed together.

Except this is exactly the kind of scene they can (and probably will) use to condense the relationship down to two scenes (1. They meet and talk, 2. They have sex...and talk). Personally, that's one scene I can definitely support.

Quick Ben · 19th August 2011, 02:41 PM

My short review: It was the longest book I've read in which nothing (meaningful) actually happens.

Bit harsh but you get the gist. Everyone is where they were at the beginning of the book.

hadd · 19th August 2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Ben

My short review: It was the longest book I've read in which nothing (meaningful) actually happens.

Bit harsh but you get the gist. Everyone is where they were at the beginning of the book.

With the exceptions of Tyrion and the Griffs. I'm not sure how far Pentos is from Meereen/Yunkai but I got the feeling there was a lot of traveling for Tyrion.

And well the Griffs finally landed in Westeros (though indeed that could be counted as "that bite of the burger").

All in all I get what you mean though

I appreciate Martin trying to create a huge world and give us all the nuances but well... As an example you could say that LOTR would have been pretty boring if it would have ALL the historical, linguistic details and what not added into the trilogy (the stuff fans get in the Tolkien encyclopedias).

16th August 2011, 11:03 PM	#151 (permalink)
Mesanna Glad to be Geek Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 556	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! I think the general assumption is that Ser Robert has no head and you'll never see him take his helmet off. Creeeeepy! On the Meereense knot, I tend to think that it's what happens in the next book that will show us how GRRM 'untied' it. When you take the timeline into account, only the last two or three hundred pages of ADWD actually moved ahead of the timeline of AFFC, so we're only really starting to see how things will play out. I need to go re-read Barristan Selmy's POVs, since he was supposedly one of the characters GRRM used to move the plot forward. I wonder if there might be any hidden clues as to where the story might be going in there. Also, welcome Seferbo! Always nice to have a new face in the forums

16th August 2011, 11:15 PM	#152 (permalink)
Lady of Winterfell Foxy Lady Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,942	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! Well if the knot was timing and getting the right characters in the right places in relation to Dany, than I see now why he was going to have a time gap between ASOS and ADWD. Assuming he would have kept that gap, those people would be with Dany at the beginning of the book following ASOS (I assume that was originally ADWD)? It would make sense since this book was pretty much a bunch of people traveling to get there, but they still never made it there (aside from Quentyn).

17th August 2011, 02:33 PM	#154 (permalink)
Mesanna Glad to be Geek Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 556	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! I so need to read ADWD again. I whizzed through it first time, and it was a lot to take in, so yeah I didn't take in that we got all that from Barristan! I'm wondering how the Khalasar that Dany meets at the end will feel about her. It seems to go against their traditions to accept her as anything other than the widow of a deceased Khal, who should be sent to live with the crones at that place I can't remember the name of LOL! I suppose the presence of dragons might change a few minds though.

18th August 2011, 04:27 PM	#155 (permalink)
Gazz Beyond Hadrian's Wall Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 24	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! It's been a while since I've posted here, but I'll suggest that this analogy is the best and closest thing for what I felt when reading "A Dance with Dragons". It was like being at a barbecue with all your best friends. The sun was shining, all of your pals were there, and the atmosphere was all spot on. The host is laughing and joking, and turning over some burgers on a grill, and they look DELICIOUS, and it's fantastic, and you get a beer or two to start, and you're joking, and then the host brings you over some salad, and some sausages. He pretends he's going to take them away, but then gives you them, with a little chuckle, and you laugh a little at the hosts tendency to always pull the same trick (althought you're secretly a little bit tired, it isn't as fun or funny when he does it every single time he pulls a plate over) And sure, they're tasty, but you secretly really just want a burger, but you can wait a little while. They're still simmering, and he makes a little joke and goes back to them and turns them over and you carry on laughing and joking with your friends. And then the sun goes down, and it's still nice but you wonder when the burgers are going to be brought over. And the host brings you over some more sausages and salad, and yeah, you think they're nice, but all you want now is a f******g burger, and you can smell them, you can hear them SIZZLING, surely they must be ready by now. You finish your sausages and salad, and laugh and joke, and the stars are out, and then you get some more sausages and salad, but you don't want any sausages or salad. In fact, though they're nice, and if they were all you expected, they'd be fine, but the burgers are RIGHT THERE. And then, just as you think you won't get a burger, you finally, finally get one brought over by the host. But all he gives you is a bite, and then you have to go home. Left me feeling a bit seen off. One burger would have been enough, but all we got was salad and sausages (and maybe a bite at the end). I'm secretly left in a bit of limbo here. Not really sure where GRRM is going to go with all this, if he is going to go down the main antagonist route after all. There are a lot of factions left to resolve (and a lot of burgers to eat), for instance the factions I can see developing more in the next book are: 1 - the White Walkers. Agenda unknown? 2 - the Northmen, led by Jon Snow (reborn as Azor Azai?) 3 - the Southrons, led by the clergy of the Seven + Cersei + Highgarden. 4 - Aegon and the Golden Company 5 - The Ironmen, Euron + Dragons/actual Kraken 6 - Daenyrs + Khal Phono + a lot of sellswords Not really rooting for anyone here, but I suspect that the White Walkers might well be tied in with Mance Rayder and the Ironmen, and if they are, they'll be a formiddable pairing.

18th August 2011, 06:33 PM	#156 (permalink)
Wiggum S.M.R.T. Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 883	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! Lol, great analogy Gazz.

18th August 2011, 07:13 PM	#157 (permalink)
JagLover Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK: ENGLAND: Posts: 138	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! I see over on the TV forum that GRRM thinks they should devote three seasons to AFFC and ADWD combined. If HBO were foolish enough to do so their viewing figures will be down to only hardcore fans by the end. If I were them I would combine the two books in one season and cut out all the filler, and most of the new characters who, I doubt, will prove of any major significance in the end. Moreover if WOW has been released by then, bring in the resolution of the Mereen situation to finish the season. Only then will the season come close to matching what has gone before.

18th August 2011, 09:28 PM	#158 (permalink)
Lady of Winterfell Foxy Lady Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,942	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! I seriously cannot imagine 3 season being needed for AFFC and ADWD. I think 1 season would be sufficient. Although if they wanted to allow Martin more time to write books (before the TV series catches up), then they could possible make it 2.

19th August 2011, 02:41 PM	#164 (permalink)
Quick Ben Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia, Victoria Posts: 258	Re: A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS! My short review: It was the longest book I've read in which nothing (meaningful) actually happens. Bit harsh but you get the gist. Everyone is where they were at the beginning of the book.

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