Dialogue... help?

[Grimbear]

Ah well,

I think I don't care enough. If Word underlines in green I just fiddle about and try a few things till the greeen goes away.

I'm sure it's not just me though. Am sure a lot of people have a slapdash approach to grammar

[RJM Corbet]

Originally Posted by Grimbear

Ah well,

I think I don't care enough. If Word underlines in green I just fiddle about and try a few things till the greeen goes away.

I'm sure it's not just me though. Am sure a lot of people have a slapdash approach to grammar

I have the spell-check on but I don't like the computer telling me how to write. The spell-check is useful because I think very few people can claim a perfect ten in spelling.

Apart from that I regard the computer as a typewriter/ typesetter. Doesn't give it the right to nag me about my grammar. Anyway, rules of grammar often don't apply to realistic dialogue

[Boneman]

Originally Posted by RJM Corbet

Anyway, rules of grammar often don't apply to realistic dialogue

Yeah, and it can get annoying, when it tries to point it out to you!

While we're here, can I ask if this is correct? Hero just heard a whisper in his mind, and described for us what he was looking at, and made a tenuous connection between the two.

The whisper had said: "here."



I keep looking at it, wondering if the colon should go altogether...?

[Ursa major]

Personally, I'd prefer a comma to a colon. And I think the quote should start with a capital letter, i.e. "Here."

[RJM Corbet]

Originally Posted by Boneman

The whisper had said: "here."

It bothers me too, but perhaps that's only because you mentioned it. If you're going to italicize, perhaps drop the quote marks and I agree with Ursa about the capital, because it is speech?

The whisper had said: Here.

Or keep the quotes but lose the italics, as in:

John said: "Here."

I don't know, Boneman, tricky one. No doubt there will be more suggestions shortly ...

[Boneman]

Yeah, I like the look of that, RJM... as 'reported speech' I'm worried about a comma and a capital, but the italics themselves draw the attention in the right way..

[The Judge]

Originally Posted by Grimbear

I think I don't care enough.

Well, start caring! Words and grammar are your tools if you want to be a writer -- you should be just as careful with them as a carpenter is with his saws and chisels or whatever it is carpenters use. Knocking in a nail with a monkey wrench isn't a sign of creativity and being a free spirit.

If Word underlines in green I just fiddle about and try a few things till the greeen goes away.

Which might be exactly the wrong thing to do since the green line is frequently wrong. And, as RJM says, sometimes it is correct but it needs to be ignored for the sake of the story. Getting the grammar right is your responsibility, not the machine's. If you don't know something, find out. If you can't work out what's wrong, ask here and you shall be put right. We're good at putting people right.

I'm sure it's not just me though. Am sure a lot of people have a slapdash approach to grammar

Doubtless. There are also a lot of people who have a slapdash approach to personal hygiene, but they're not making many friends that way...


Seriously, a writer needs to be on top of the basics of punctuation and grammar and word use. It's difficult enough to persuade an agent you have a good book -- if he sees a dozen mistakes in as many lines he's going to wonder whether it is worth his time and effort to take you on. Don't give them any excuse to put your m/s down and look at someone else's work.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by RJM Corbet

I have the spell-check on but I don't like the computer telling me how to write ... Doesn't give it the right to nag me about my grammar. Anyway, rules of grammar often don't apply to realistic dialogue

Absolutely.

And not only that, but (and I hesitate to say it, because one of these days soon someone is bound to misquote me) the rules of grammar don't always apply to the exposition. Sentence fragments, for instance, if used sparingly, can create dramatic effects. The grammar check is set up for academic papers, technical writing, or business letters, and not for the writing of fiction.

[Hex]

Right. More dialogue confusion.

I'm feeling a bit wobbly about capitals and dialogue.

Here's an example:
"So, Mrs Davies," he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk, "how can I help you?"

It's all meant to be one sentence: "So, Mrs Davies, how can I help you?" Is the capitalisation right?
Should it be:

“So, Mrs Davies,” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?” ?

[HareBrain]

If you have a comma after "desk", and you intend the split dialogue line to be one sentence, there should be no capital "h" for "how". If you put a full-stop after "desk", then there should be a capital "H". (In that case the dialogue would read as two sentences, but that's OK here.)

However, you shouldn't have comma, then "he settled" after the first bit of dialogue, as "settled" isn't a verb indicating speech. There would have to be a full-stop after "Davies" and "he" would have a capital "H":

“So, Mrs Davies.” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”

However (again) this removes the option of having the comma after "desk", because you had to end the first bit of dialogue with a full-stop.

[Ursa major]

For me - and this is as much personal, I think, as grammar in action - I feel that while the dialogue could be one sentence, it doesn't have to be:

“So, Mrs Davies.” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”

I suppose it depends on how long the settling process is supposed to take. The fact that it's remarked upon suggests to me that it isn't him simply relaxing into the chair, but a more elaborate process. (Or it could be that it's not a simple action but includes description, making it read longer. And that 'wide' adds to the feeling. I can almost see the camera slowly moving across the desk from the 'he' towards Mrs Davies.)

In the above version, the first section of dialogue ends rather abruptly, so I'd be tempted to add an ellipsis before the full stop:

“So, Mrs Davies....” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”

If you want to keep the dialogue as one sentence, I feel the need to add something else; for example:

“So, Mrs Davies --” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk “-- how can I help you?”

or

“So, Mrs Davies...” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk “...how can I help you?”

I much prefer the version with two sentence of dialogue, though.

[Mouse]

HareBrain's beat me to it, but yeah, was gonna say 'he settled' has nothing to do with the dialogue so no comma.

I'd write: “So, Mrs Davies,” he said, settling in his chair behind the wide wooden desk, “how can I help you?”

Or if you don't want the 'he said' then full stop it.

[Pallas Athena]

I like Mouse's choice for structuring that sentence.

As for using colons in dialogue, the only author I remember using that was Ken Follett in Pillars of the Earth. (Since it's the only Ken Follett book I've read, he might use that punctuation mark in dialogue in all of them so the citation is only to show where I have seen it used.)

I found it visually distracting and wished he had used commas instead. Then again, it might just be a British style of writing and since I'm American, I found it unusual and therefore distracting.

For example:

Jack said angrily: "What's that devil doing here?"

I am more accustomed to seeing it written as:

Jack said angrily, "What's that devil doing here?"


I do not care for colons in fiction. I am also not a fan of semicolons, but will use them on occasion.

And I hate ellipses. I think of them as harsh spices that should be used sparingly. I do use them, but my teeth grind when I see them used with too much frequency.

As for the attribution of said being invisible, I understand the argument. I do not happen to agree with it, but I know that this has been said often enough to writers that many take it on faith. Therefore, using anything other than said and an occasional asked, whispered or shouted is a pet peeve of many people. To avoid irritating people, I try to refrain myself in using many other dialogue attributions that I would otherwise prefer.

[Phoenixthewriter]

Wonderful thread! I learned a few things here that actually make me both happy that I've done things right, and then kick myself that I pretty much have to rewrite every piece of quoted text to replace periods with commas.

Since day one I've written like this.

"You've got to me kidding me." She said.

Just like that, period within the quote and capitalizing the tag. I've probably got a good week of editing to change all I've done, but all the same, I can't complain to know how its supposed to be done.

[telford]

Hello Phoenix.

Since day one I've written like this.

"You've got to me kidding me." She said.

Really? Perhaps you might try: "You've got to be kidding me," she said.

Or is that what you meant? Good luck, T.