GOT discussion for aSoIaF readers (SPOILERS)

[X'Nedra]

Great episode. I enjoyed Tyrion's parts, and Cersei is being portrayed exactly as I imagined when reading the book. Loved Syrio and Arya's scene.

See everyone - don't need "infohumps" to make a great episode!

The first few minutes did make me think of Monty Python though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXG4...eature=related

[Conor]

Originally Posted by X'Nedra

Great episode. I enjoyed Tyrion's parts, and Cersei is being portrayed exactly as I imagined when reading the book. Loved Syrio and Arya's scene.

See everyone - don't need "infohumps" to make a great episode!

The first few minutes did make me think of Monty Python though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXG4...eature=related

LOL I never saw that Monty Python clip thanks! You guys do have a point!

I am almost looking forward to seeing Lancel Lannister in his Kingsguard armour...

[TK-421]

Lack of infohumps makes this Stormtrooper sad.

Anyways, great episode. Excellent acting all around. I'll reserve my praise for the thread in the GOT forum.

I think GRRM gave us the answer to that question many of us have been asking ourselves: Is Syrio really dead?

You could not tell from the screams that Arya heard as she headed down the stairs and one may wonder as there was quite a bit of screaming, that Syrio somehow killed all those Lannister guards and Ser Meryn Trant (who was very well played).

The answer was in the scene with the throne room when BFS is stripped of his position by Cersei. I could have sworn that one of the Kingsguard that faces BFS when he takes out his sword was Trant, unhurt. I have yet to confirm and will try when I rewatch the episode On Demand. If it is Trant, then we know that Syrio is truly dead.

[Mouse]

Syrio was kick-ass, I hope he's not dead. But how could he have survived? I guess the wooden sword is pointier once it's been broken...

[firstfist]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Syrio was kick-ass, I hope he's not dead. But how could he have survived? I guess the wooden sword is pointier once it's been broken...

There were also five or so swords lying around after their owners were clubbed with said wooden sword.

[Needle]

Originally Posted by firstfist

There were also five or so swords lying around after their owners were clubbed with said wooden sword.

My thoughts exactly! The broken wooden sword means nothing with all the swords lef around from those he had already taken down.

I shall follow TK to my DVR to see if I can spot Trant later. Honestly can't remember from the books if he is mentioned after or not, anyone know for sure?

I also liked that they showed the Septa trying to protect Sansa, we knew one of the heads on the wall was hers, but always kinda wondered why they felt it necessary to kill her.

[Conor]

Originally Posted by Needle

My thoughts exactly! The broken wooden sword means nothing with all the swords lef around from those he had already taken down.


I also liked that they showed the Septa trying to protect Sansa, we knew one of the heads on the wall was hers, but always kinda wondered why they felt it necessary to kill her.

They killed everybody, thats where it really got to me in the book..I thought "Wow these guys are really hardcore"

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Needle

My thoughts exactly! The broken wooden sword means nothing with all the swords lef around from those he had already taken down.

I shall follow TK to my DVR to see if I can spot Trant later. Honestly can't remember from the books if he is mentioned after or not, anyone know for sure?

I also liked that they showed the Septa trying to protect Sansa, we knew one of the heads on the wall was hers, but always kinda wondered why they felt it necessary to kill her.

Yes Trant is in the later books. The point I was making is that he seems to appear very soon after the encounter with Syrio. The theory was that Syrio somehow escaped Trant or that he was a Faceless Man like Jaqen and did not truly die. Or that he was Jaqen and instead od dying he was captured.

While there were swords laying around, Syrio never seemed to make a move for them. Purposely done, me thinks.

I just thought that Trant appearing so soon after the fight with Syrion was perhaps GRRM's way to put that theory to bed.

[Hilarious Joke]

Wow, I actually thought the opposite. I felt that the very fact they didn't show Syrio die was indicative that he didn't - I couldn't see why they wouldn't when they've been happy to show killings before...

[Mesanna]

I tend to agree Hilarious Joke. I thought the fact that we didn't see Syrio die was a point in favour of him still being alive.

Or, more likely, maybe GRRM just loves teasing the fans and told the directors that it deliberately had to be left open-ended. Git!

[Ursa major]

He may even have told the directors that Syrio's fate had to be left to the imagination "because of what happens later" (possibly knowing full well that they will never see Syrio, in any form, again).

[Oxman]

The Syrio thing could well have been left ambiguous just to torment the readers, as Ursa pointed out, but there is one thing that niggles me.

When Syrio was training earlier with Ayra, he mentioned the only god being death, and what do we say to him? "Not today."

This was reiterated in episode 8, when Syrio tells Ayra to run. "Not today," she even says, just before Syrio repeats it, as if to himself.

It does appear that Ser Meryn Trant is indeed in front of the Iron Throne when Selmy is dismissed. But then, it appears to me that Trant would be entirely the sort of person to keep it quiet if the Braavosi had somehow eluded him and escaped or knocked him out temporarily (after all, Syrio does not run...).

This led me to a chain of thinking regarding the Imp's crackpot theory. Which one, you ask? - The one that Eddard is not actually dead. In the TV series, when Varys visits Ned in his cell, they pretty much cover all of the details in the book, save for the bits about Sansa's plea (due to chronology - Sansa's pleas on tv occur before Ned & Varys). Varys uses the "Not today" line to Ned, which is odd. I've re-read the cell scene and Varys doesn't say this in the book. It just felt a little off to squeeze into that scene. And very GRRM.

Saying that, I'm pretty sure Ned is dead. The above throws a few coals on the fire, but in the book we see the scene from a distance via Ayra (who recognises her father aside from him looking gaunt and weak - and doesn't notice his voice being any different) and closer up in retrospect via Sansa (no doubts it's Eddard in her mind. She can't even bear to look away). The only iffy bits are the "unrecognisable" tar covered severed head on the spike or the possibility that Varys got him out of the cell and replaced him with a faceless man (too convoluted, even if Varys says he could get Ned out - but won't).

When the time comes, my bet is that Ned's execution will be shown full blown and close up. It's the first massive shock in the book that I remember. And would make quite the iconic image or cliffhanger on the TV show.

[X'Nedra]

Hmmm... when reading GoT I never considered that Ned isn't dead. Now I'm kinda liking that theory and hope the Imp is right. But that might just be the child in me who wishes for happily ever after - a part which really shouldn't be involved in reading this book or watching this series at all!

[Conor]

Originally Posted by X'Nedra

Hmmm... when reading GoT I never considered that Ned isn't dead. Now I'm kinda liking that theory and hope the Imp is right. But that might just be the child in me who wishes for happily ever after - a part which really shouldn't be involved in reading this book or watching this series at all!

I was hoping that Yoren smuggled Ned out of Kings Landing and that he was one of the cretins chained up in the wagon. My hopes died along with Yoren and when Arya helped the the prisoners at the end of the battle with the Lannistermen.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Oxman

This led me to a chain of thinking regarding the Imp's crackpot theory. Which one, you ask? - The one that Eddard is not actually dead. In the TV series, when Varys visits Ned in his cell, they pretty much cover all of the details in the book, save for the bits about Sansa's plea (due to chronology - Sansa's pleas on tv occur before Ned & Varys). Varys uses the "Not today" line to Ned, which is odd.

Remember, the plan was to send Ned to the Wall. It was Joffrey, at the last moment, who gets in a tantrum and demands Ned be killed, much to the horror of everyone else. Even in Arya's POV, doesn't she see Varys making an effort to try and stop proceedings?