Snippet from later chapter

[Mouse]

Ok, I wrote this last night in between battling with the dog and staring blankly at my laptop screen. I'm trying to do a bit more with my descriptive stuff now (that is, more than I do usually, which is a tad more than none). And also, I'd like to know if the fear/tension/urgency comes across?

This might be confusing as it's out of context and it's chapter 29 of book number three. But see what you think...

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Pasque thanked the driver and handed over a bronze coin before leaving the cart. With a flick of the reins, the horse moved on and the cart trundled away down the street.

East-Town always seemed somehow darker than the other towns of the kingdom. The houses were crowded closer together and the streets narrower.

Pasque reached behind her head and tightened her plait, then she brushed down her dress and adjusted her leather bag over her shoulder.

She pulled Helena’s note from her pocket and read it again. Rue, catmint, silverweed, blackwort, feverfew, lemon balm and yarrow.

The herbs had healing properties and Helena used them for a great many things. Pasque looked up from the list to the front of the herbalist’s place where the driver had stopped for her.

A crack ran up the brickwork at the front of the building and someone had hastily repaired the two windows of the upper floor by boarding them up.

Dull light shone through the single window on the ground floor, though the glass was so filthy that Pasque wondered if the place ever received any custom since nobody could see the goods on offer.

She stepped onto the doorstep and raised her fist to knock.

But something stopped her. A cool breeze brushed against her cheek and a chill ran down her spine.

Pasque turned and looked down the street. There, at the end, stood Little Cloud.

For a moment Pasque stood frozen, and then she took a breath. She tried a smile. “Hey,” she said.

“Hello.” It was Cloud’s voice but it wasn’t him speaking.

“I uh... I’ve been looking for you,” Pasque said. She wondered if Millicent knew who she was, if she shared Cloud’s memories as well as his body.

Cloud smiled. “Have you?” he asked.

Pasque looked at the door to the herbalist’s, then she stepped down from the doorstep. “I thought you were with Sorrel,” she said.

“I bet you did,” Cloud said. He approached Pasque.

She stayed where she was. “I’m just running some errands,” she said. “For Helena.”

Cloud stopped in front of Pasque. She wanted to reach out and touch him but dared not. He looked her in the eye.

For a moment neither of them spoke. The first sound came as a gasp from Pasque’s lips as Little Cloud lifted his hand and touched her face. His fingers were cold.

Pasque frowned. “Cloud?” she asked.

His eyes changed from grey to green. He blinked. “Yes,” he murmured.

Pasque grabbed his hands. “Cloud!” she said. “Stay with me.” She dropped one of his hands so that she could rummage in her bag. “Here,” she said, finding the Sweetsleep. “Here, take this.”

“Pasque?” Cloud said. He sounded dazed, though he took the bottle when she pressed it into his hand. “What...?”

“Just take it,” urged Pasque, closing Cloud’s hand around the bottle. “Drink it. It will stop her until we can help you.”

Cloud ran a hand over his face. He shook his head a little. “Pasque, I...”

She saw the look of fear as it appeared on his face. “Cloud!”

“No,” he said. “No, you can’t be here! She’ll come back. You have to run. Run, please! Before she comes back, I can’t stop her!”

“Drink the potion,” Pasque cried. She gripped his face between her hands, trying to get him to pay attention. “Drink it!”

Cloud’s eyes rolled in his head. Pasque saw his hold on the bottle loosen and she snatched it from his hand and pushed it into his jacket pocket.

When Cloud looked at her again, his eyes were grey. Pasque turned and fled down the street.

[The Judge]

Arrrgggghhhh....

I just wrote a long post and lost it. *Grump.*

Right. Where was I?

Eek... the herbs! Be careful with that bloody rue! It's dangerous. I'm prejudiced, I admit it. Fifteen years on and I've still got the scars on my hand. If Pasque ever comes across it growing, tell her to put gloves on before touching it!

Anyhow, I don't know where Pasque is travelling from, but I get the impression she's come from a village into this town. If so, then it strikes me that this is arse-about-face. Anyone interested in herbs will be growing them for herself, not relying on dried concoctions from some grotty shop miles away, particularly for things like melissa and nepeta which are very easy to grow. If Helena can't grow them for herself -- eg if we are talking exotics here like Opium poppies (used as sedatives in the past) then you need to make more of it.

As for the way the herbs are introduced here, it appears that Pasque knows very little about them, which is fine. Unfortunately the line The herbs had healing properties and Helena used them for a great many things makes it sound like you don't know anything about them either, which is not fine. You don't want to info-dump on us, with a mini-lecture about anti-spasmodics and febrifuges, but you really have to think a little more about this. If you want to mention them by name, I'd suggest that you have a reason for Helena needing the specific herbs and use it, eg there has been an outbreak of colds and coughs in the village and she's run out of catmint and silverweed (and horehound and marshmallow). That gives detail and information without overloading us.

Generally, yes, I found it confusing on first read through, which is only to be expected coming fresh to the middle of a book, and I picked it up the fact he is effectively possessed on the second read. But I can't say that I found it particularly tense or gripping, sorry.

As for description, I think you need to integrate it more into the story. Giving us a few lines about the outside of the shop would have been fine, had we gone inside and met the proprietor. As it is, it feels a bit pointless, description added just for the sake of it. Pasque has been here before I take it, so you can't describe the town from the viewpoint of a complete innocent. Nonetheless, I think you could get more in about the general decrepitude and air of bleakness and menace. I wonder if perhaps you've started the scene too early. If you went back a minute or two and had her being driven through the streets, the gutters running with effluent, rot and rubbish everywhere, she's feeling more and more uneasy as the houses close in on her, the people look shifty and mean-spirited, that would set up the tension better for when she meets Cloud. As it is you're concentrating on things which don't really need saying, eg the whole sentence "Pasque reached behind..." could go (unless this is some kind of important shorthand for her state of mind we already know about).

And speaking of people -- where is everyone? It's like the two of them are completely alone in this long street, which surely can't be right. Add the noise of children playing, or women screaming, or dogs fighting -- get some life into the place, even if it's life that Pasque would rather not see. If it is dead, because you need the two of them to be isolated, then have her notice that fact, eg the absence of birds, the faint echoes of life from a distance, the sound of one person's footsteps echoing as he approaches a nearby corner. I suggest that you try and imagine yourself into the street, and run through your senses -- what can you see, smell, hear, touch? Then add a few details.

One thing I do find unsettling, but not in a good way, is your use of short paragraphs. If you had longer paras at the beginning with the description, that would introduce variety and also bring with it tension in itself, when you change the pace with the short paras for the dialogue at the end.

Hope that helps. If you do want more info about herbs, I'm happy to go hunting through my books (don't rely on wiki, as it's not always as accurate or comprehensive as it could be).

[Mouse]

Thanks, TJ. Ok...

Originally Posted by The Judge

Eek... the herbs! Be careful with that bloody rue! It's dangerous. I'm prejudiced, I admit it. Fifteen years on and I've still got the scars on my hand. If Pasque ever comes across it growing, tell her to put gloves on before touching it!

I had a hamster called Rue! Not that that has anything to do with anything, but just felt like mentioning it!

Anyhow, I don't know where Pasque is travelling from, but I get the impression she's come from a village into this town. If so, then it strikes me that this is arse-about-face. Anyone interested in herbs will be growing them for herself, not relying on dried concoctions from some grotty shop miles away, particularly for things like melissa and nepeta which are very easy to grow.

She's coming from a nicer town into a scabbier town. The list of herbs is a sort of place holder for the mo until I can work out what to put on the list! (I just looked at a website listing herbs and was looking at where they came from, rather that what they did! Oops.)

Helena lives/lived in the woods, and in the first (or second) book (can't remember which!) I do have her picking things herself... It's just that now she's moved into the kingdom, she doesn't know where to get stuff.

I do like the poppy idea though, and almost listed poppies. Might use that...

As for description, I think you need to integrate it more into the story. Giving us a few lines about the outside of the shop would have been fine, had we gone inside and met the proprietor. As it is, it feels a bit pointless, description added just for the sake of it. Pasque has been here before I take it, so you can't describe the town from the viewpoint of a complete innocent.

No she hasn't been there before. And I was going to have her go into the shop, but changed my mind!

And speaking of people -- where is everyone? It's like the two of them are completely alone in this long street, which surely can't be right. Add the noise of children playing, or women screaming, or dogs fighting -- get some life into the place, even if it's life that Pasque would rather not see. If it is dead, because you need the two of them to be isolated, then have her notice that fact, eg the absence of birds, the faint echoes of life from a distance, the sound of one person's footsteps echoing as he approaches a nearby corner. I suggest that you try and imagine yourself into the street, and run through your senses -- what can you see, smell, hear, touch? Then add a few details.

It's dead because of things that have happened previously in the book, but I'll add more info into this bit. (I don't think this world has dogs, I usually end up mentioning chickens in my street scenes!)

And I think I avoided all of that because I did it in an earlier chapter, describing a bloke selling something in the street, people laughing, the smell of onions! But that was a different street in a different town.

One thing I do find unsettling, but not in a good way, is your use of short paragraphs. If you had longer paras at the beginning with the description, that would introduce variety and also bring with it tension in itself, when you change the pace with the short paras for the dialogue at the end.

Not a fan of long paragraphs, they always feel like info dump to me. Never written long paragraphs! Don't really like reading them either.

Hope that helps. If you do want more info about herbs, I'm happy to go hunting through my books (don't rely on wiki, as it's not always as accurate or comprehensive as it could be).

Ta muchly.

[Precise Calibre]

Time to pull out me best cutty-knife...

Pasque thanked the driver and handed over a bronze coin before leaving the cart. With a flick of the reins, the horse moved on and the cart trundled away down the street.

The bit in bold sounds like not only is the horse the one who is flicking the reins, but also that it is a separate entity from the cart as in; the horse is moving on and the cart moved off of its own accord.

A crack ran up the brickwork at the front of the building and someone had hastily repaired the two windows of the upper floor by boarding them up.

Dull light shone through the single window on the ground floor, though the glass was so filthy that Pasque wondered if the place ever received any custom since nobody could see the goods on offer.

This part seems to me like you just stuck in to say "hey, I haven't forgotten about the surroundings and I'm going to describe them". It seems forced or artificial, if that makes any sense.

Is it dark because of the narrowness of the streets or because it's darker from dusk or somesuch? Added to that idea...

Pasque turned and looked down the street. There, at the end, stood Little Cloud.

Conveniently dark enough to use to describe her surroundings and add interior lighting and even say how one couldn't see the wares in the store, but not enough to make it harder for to identify her friend.

Cloud stopped in front of Pasque. She wanted to reach out and touch him but dared not.

Why didn't she dare touch him? Is this made clear earlier or is she feeling an apprehension that even she can't explain.

----

Okies, anything after that I didn't have issue with. You picked the pace up nicely and handled the suspense and quasi-confrontation well. It's definitely interested me to see further into the story.

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

The paragraphs seem to be a bit short, but that's just my personal taste. And it did seem a bit infodumpy to me, especially when you describe East-Town. It seems to me that you should either add a bit more description to it or cut it out entirely.


PC brings up a good point about the horse and cart but god dang it, now I can't quit laughing as I imagine a horse driver's surprise as the horse goes off on its own as his cart rolls out of control....


And the name Little Cloud.....sounds like an old Native American name to me that just doesn't seem to fit in.

[J Riff]

Like short paragraphs too, usually, don't know why.

Long paragraphs can be really a bit long.

Short ones rule.

Really short.

Yep.

[telford]

Hello Mouse,
Having dropped out of context pieces on this site myself, I won't comment on content. From what I've read you have all the questions answered in previous chapters, books etc. The other crits have given their two cents worth and I can only add one minor nit. When Pasque and Cloud are talking you continue to add, Pasque said, Cloud said, and this seems unnecessary since we know their are only the two of them. That's all I've got. Well done as usual.

[TheEndIsNigh]

J:

Arrrgggghhhh....

Come on J. you don't fool me. You just wanted to preempt Pyan's "Talk like a pirate day" and don't deny it.

Originally Posted by Mouse

Ok, I wrote this last night in between battling with the dog and staring blankly at my laptop screen. I'm trying to do a bit more with my descriptive stuff now (that is, more than I do usually, which is a tad more than none). And also, I'd like to know if the fear/tension/urgency comes across?

This might be confusing as it's out of context and it's chapter 29 of book number three. But see what you think...

---------

Hi Mouse - here goes.

("a bronze coin" semi implies there is more than one type of bronze coin. I think it would add depth if you gave it a name/relative value. - handed over two of the small bronze trisk bits; she considered a silver crump but the change would jingle and might attract unwanted attention. - course you may have already establish coinage values elsewhere - if so forgive)
Pasque thanked the driver and handed over a bronze coin before leaving stepping down from the cart. The driver flicked With a flick of the reins, and the horse moved on and the cart trundled away down the street.

East-Town always seemed somehow darker than the other towns of the kingdom. The houses were crowded closer together and the streets narrower.

Pasque reached behind her head and tightened her plait, then she brushed down her dress and adjusted her the leather strap of the bag over her shoulder.

She pulled Helena’s note from her pocket and read it again. Rue, catmint, silverweed, blackwort, feverfew, lemon balm and yarrow.

The herbs had healing medicinal (assuming J's comments were correct, rue would cause more trouble than good) properties and although Helena used them for a great many things. Pasque looked up from the list to the front of the herbalist’s, place where the driver had stopped for dropped her.

A crack ran up the brickwork at the front of the building and someone had hastily repaired the two windows of the upper floor by boarding them up. (can't think of an alternative at the mo, but boarding up a window doesn't really constitute a repair)

A Dull light shone (is it day or night) through the single (the is singular) window on the ground floor; though the glass was so filthy that Pasque wondered if the place ever received any custom since nobody could see the goods on offer. (Would a herbalist expose his herbs/goods to the bright light of day, The Chinese herbalists you see around usually keep them in the dark and cool)

She stepped onto the doorstep and raised her fist to knock. (If it's a shop as you imply by the goods on offer surely the door would be open for custom)

But something stopped her. A cool breeze brushed against her cheek and a chill ran down her spine.

Pasque turned and looked down the street. There, at the end, stood Little Cloud.

For a moment Pasque froze. stood frozen, and then she took a breath. She tried a smile. “Hey,” she said. (Cloud wouldn't see the smile if Cloud was at the end of the street and she would need to at least 'call' or 'shout' at that distance. I'm assuming a large distance as she would have seen Cloud straight away otherwise)

“Hello.” It was Cloud’s voice but it wasn’t him speaking.(? if it walks like a duck... it might be worth expanding on the reason for this. The next passage implies knowledge I assume has been described before - if not etc.)

“I uh... I’ve been looking for you,” Pasque said. She wondered if Millicent knew who she was, if she shared Cloud’s memories as well as his body.

(This time - maybe) Cloud smiled. “Have you?” he asked.

Pasque looked at the door to the herbalist’s, then she stepped down from the doorstep. “I thought you were with Sorrel,” she said. (Is everyone named after a flower or herb)

“I bet you did,” Cloud said. He approached Pasque.

She stayed where she was. “I’m just running some errands,” she said. “For Helena.”

Cloud stopped in front of Pasque. She wanted to reach out and touch him but dared not. He looked her in the eye. (these positional descriptions are a bit stage direction like.)

For a moment neither of them spoke. The first sound came as a gasp from Pasque’s lips as Little Cloud lifted his hand and touched her face. His fingers were cold. (then as he raised his hand to her face she gasped, his hand was ice cold - just cold could be just that it's a cold and windy day. I assume he's dead or something so it has to be an unnatural cold)

Pasque frowned. “Cloud?” she asked.

His eyes changed from grey to green. He blinked. “Yes,” he murmured. (this seems a bit of a mundane reaction to what seems a startling event)

Pasque grabbed his hands. “Cloud!” she said as she rummaged in her bag, “Stay with me.” She dropped one of his hands so that she could rummage in her bag. “Here,” she said, finding the Sweetsleep. “Here, take this.”

“Pasque?” Cloud said. He sounded dazed, though he took the bottle when she pressed it into his hand. “What...?”

“Just take it,” urged Pasque, closing Cloud’s hand around the bottle. “Drink it. It will stop her until we can help you.”

Cloud ran a hand over his face. He shook his head a little. “Pasque, I...”

"Cloud!" She saw the look of fear as he realised. it appeared on his face. “Cloud!”

“No,” he said. “No, you can’t! be here She’ll come back. You have to run. Run, please! Before she comes back, I can’t stop her!”

“Drink the potion,” Pasque cried. She gripped his face between her hands, trying (grabbing someone face like that will get there attantion, it's not an attempt) to get his him to pay attention. “Drink it! (Could you risk a "Damn it!" here)”

Cloud’s eyes rolled in his head. Pasque saw his hold on the bottle loosen and she snatched it from his hand and pushed it into his jacket pocket. (why)

When Cloud looked at her again, his eyes were grey. Pasque turned and fled down the street. (seems a bit callous)

This is obviously a critical moment in the plot. However, given the apparent significance I didn't get any feeling of emotion or panic that I would have expected. I sorry but it feels a bit wooden especially with the stage directions etc. The use of Pasque said everytime is also a bit jarring a few he said she said might liven it up a bit and imply a bit more passion.


I've just noticed your reply to J. Do only scabby towns have herbalists? It seems unlikely so why this long journey. The herbs you mention are fairly common. It would make sense if this herbalist had his own particular rare liniment otherwise it seems like the whole point of the journey was not the herbalist, but a way to get two people that we're not expecting to be there, to meet - if you see what I mean.

Also, I think your dislike of the long sentence/para is limiting. Info dump, although frowned upon a lot on this site, is actually necessary in almost every book I've ever read. It just needs to be moderate and not too long.

Hoped I helped.

TEiN

[Mouse]

Thanks all.

The driver/rein thing. I knew that was odd, but didn't know how to correct it. I left it as it was (one cos I knew you guys would spot it) and two because I was hoping for something other than a repetition of 'the driver' again.

Will think on it.

The names will not be changing. This is book number three. It does sound Native American, yes. There are also characters called White Cloud (his father), Running Bear and Red Hawk. I'm not a complete moron. Lots of the characters are named after herbs and flowers too.

There are three sorts of races of people. Lamya - who have surnames. Elani, who don't. (They're the ones with the herby/flower/Native American names.) The third race is the Sarkany - their names always end with an 'ee' sound.

(As for the two paragraphs one starting 'a crack' and the next just 'dull' instead of 'a dull...' I was trying to avoid repetition again there! Must try harder I guess.)

As for the herbs, I'm going to scrap all that cos it's a pain in the arse.

Thankies! Will work on it later.

Ooh... forgot to add, it's not a particularly long journey. These towns all back onto one another.

[The Judge]

Originally Posted by TheEndIsNigh

Come on J. you don't fool me. You just wanted to preempt Pyan's "Talk like a pirate day" and don't deny it.

Curses... me fiendish designs discovered by a land lubber...

The herbs had healing medicinal (assuming J's comments were correct, rue would cause more trouble than good) properties

Oi! What do you mean "assuming"?!

Actually, although rue (aka herb of grace, which sounds a lot nicer than the plant deserves) can be harmful when ingested (it's an abortifacient), it's the actual sap in sunlight that's the real problem for those of us with sensitive skin -- nice piccy for you here Rue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Mouse

As for the herbs, I'm going to scrap all that cos it's a pain in the arse.

Don't scrap it. The herbs are a good idea -- you just need to think about their uses a little more.

[Precise Calibre]

I agree with TJ. I think you should simply expound upon the herbs in the story. In all reality it should only take a few minutes of e-searching for herbs, perhaps focusing on medicinal ones in particular.

Failing that, you could always make her seeking out less "medicinal" herbs and opting for psychoactive ones instead. As an example, wormwood can be used to enhance dreams as well as aiding in stomach pain, labor pains and as a flea repellent.

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

I have to echo TJ's sentiment about the herbs, Mouse. Don't scrap their use, particularly since you decided to go with herbs that actually exist.

Try making up some. Believe me, it's harder to do that than to go with reality.

[TheEndIsNigh]

Mouse: I would have thought it essential that the herb's/flower's uses were described since as you say there's a wholesale use of their
names for people. It would seem unlikely that such a community wouldn't know the use of the plant they were named after.

It could even be woven in as a naming ceremony at the age of attaining adulthood.

[Ursa major]

For some reason the phrase, Rue the day, has popped into my mind.

[Mouse]

I'm still tempted to scrap the herbs. They're not that important, and it's better than my moment of this whole damn thing needs scrapping, burning, shredding, then burning some more because it's so bad my eyeballs are actually bleeding.

It's a YA book and I'm not sure they (or anyone really) would be that interested in herbs. (Or anything I have to say!) So... *sigh*

I just want to get the book written at the mo, then go back and hack at it with a rusty knife.

Until then... I edited the herb bit so it now says:

She pulled Helena’s note from her pocket and read it again. It listed herbs which didn’t grow in the Vale and the names were not ones she was overly familiar with.


The herbs had medicinal properties and although she had not stated a reason for wanting them, Pasque suspected that it might be something to do with helping Winter. She looked up from the list to the front of the herbalist’s place where the driver had dropped her.


Which is still pretty rubbish really. My writing brain has shrivelled up and died.