31.05: Flesh and Stone

[Mary Hoffman]

Well, I'm glad you guys are all so happy! I think it's been absolute tripe so far.

Don't dislike Matt Smith and positively like Karen ?Gillan. Find Alex Kingston just tedious and annoying. But really it's the writing/plotting that's been so bad. And next week's Venetian vampires look in much the same vein.

Will give it a few more goes but it's definitely not "must-see TV" for me.

[Dave]

Sorry, I'm rather late this week... seem to have covered all the bases already...

Originally Posted by Lenny

Oh yes, the forest behind the wall. Not just a forest, but cyborg trees! Wonderful! I can't remember having much to say about some of the SF we saw in RTD episodes (though I did like the idea of the skystation UNIT had in the Master episodes), but that's two brilliant things from Moffat (building a spaceship for a country, and the Byzantine in general) that I really enjoy.

I have also been thinking that this Season actually feels like a real SF show rather than a childrens-SF-come-Soap. I'd like some more proper SF shows from the BBC, but none would get the budget this does because none would have the same mass appeal.

I'm assuming that the first meeting of River and the Doctor will be seen soon/this Season. River will not know the Doctor, but the Doctor will know her. A reversal of what we have seen so far.

Originally Posted by Lenny

She told the Doctor he'd see her again very soon (this time in her past timeline... this timey-wimey stuff is getting a bit complicated!) which I'm going to take as the finale, so we can expect to see this fairytale "Pandorica" and more River in the finale. To Amy, however, she simple said, "See you, Amy". No "soon", or "again". Maybe Amy is off doing something else for the finale (honeymoon?)?

Originally Posted by ktabic

I still kinda like the idea of Amy being River Song. But doubt it will happen.

Possible, and not wacky at all, but I think it is unlikely. But why did River Song not instantly recognise Amy last week if they meet again?

Originally Posted by Foxbat

One thing - if the 'good man' is the Doctor, then it's far too obvious so I don't think it is.........unless she 'kills' him...... unaware that he is actualy regenerating......ergo... they use Riversong's action to introduce the new doctor when Matt decides he's had enough.

Agree with that. It s far too obvious to be the Doctor - and he can't die normally anyhow.

When discussing the Crack in Time and the things that could not be, the Doctor mentions the episodes we have seen, but also something about a Cyberman walking through Victorian London. Did I somehow miss something?

[pyan]

I thought he was referring to the Cyberking:

CyberKing - Doctor Who Wiki

[Dave]

Yes, that is it. He just means that Amy can't remember it happening now.

So, are these 'Cracks in Time' a new explanation for any events in our past that we don't remember. I don't remember Yetis in Convent Garden Tube station. I don't remember Daleks and Ogrons disrupting Peace Conferences. I don't remember explorers in the Antarctic uncovering two giant Krynoid seed pods. I don't remember Sea Devils attacking Naval Bases. It never bothered me before.

[PTeppic]

Perhaps they're wiping out memories of the last few seasons of "on Earth" stories. One of the more annoying (to me) factors of RTD's scripts was almost every Earth based story had half the population witnessing something major. Perhaps this resets the clock so it's more of a personal battle-ground, between the Doctor and his various foes.

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by PTeppic

One of the more annoying (to me) factors of RTD's scripts was almost every Earth based story had half the population witnessing something major.

Yes -- when I was a kid, the fact that the earth-based stories were witnessed by so few people gave you the feeling that they might actually be happening in reality but you weren't aware of it.

[Perpetual Man]

Originally Posted by HareBrain

Yes -- when I was a kid, the fact that the earth-based stories were witnessed by so few people gave you the feeling that they might actually be happening in reality but you weren't aware of it.

You've put your finger right on it!

[I, Brian]

Enjoyed both parts of this story arc - the dialogue is witty, and Matt Smith was a lot more natural and engaging - his tweed clothing seems a reference to his "mad professor" style of playing Doctor Who, which is interesting.

River Song, as ever, an enigma, and her put downs (leaving the brake on, etc,) were excellent.

Amy still looks a bit - unused. It seems the season story now revolves around her, but she's still not really doing much - or so it feels. Wondered if she were a young River Song as well, but perhaps too obvious - maybe the reason River doesn't recognise her is similar as to how Amy has forgotten the previous Doctor Who events (as with the soldiers who wandered towards the light as well).

Killing a good man? Seemed implicitly about the Doctor, which is very very interesting. However, considering the James Bond intro and the fact that the Doctor regenerates, there's obviously going to be a lot more behind this than is immediately apparent, and not as literal as we're given to think.

Altogether, though, the series has continued at a pace, the budgets are better, the actors look natural faster - the only danger I think is that the pace may be a little too fast to keep comfortable with. But we'll see.

[ktabic]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Killing a good man? Seemed implicitly about the Doctor, which is very very interesting.

I'm having second thoughts on this one now. To do this properly and cause the Doctor to regenerate means they have to keep this storyline running right the way up until Matt Smith decides to retire as the Doctor (and I for one hope that is many years away). There are other ways to 'kill' a good man, but none of them would have quite the impact of an actual death/regeneration. It also means they have to keep hold of Alex Kingston until she kills him (not a bad thing, as long as the stories she pops up in are as good as the two she has already done).

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Altogether, though, the series has continued at a pace, the budgets are better, the actors look natural faster - the only danger I think is that the pace may be a little too fast to keep comfortable with. But we'll see.

According to Steven Moffat, the Doctor Who budget has been cut this year. Which really makes it more impressive.

[Moonbat]

I enjoyed this episode (double episode) more than the last one, but I had a few points of chagrin.

Firstly how did River Song survive a decompression into space, I know she mentioned an air corridor (or something) but that was a little unscientific if you ask me, the tardis wasn't even there at first. Surely an explosive decrompresion is nihg on unsurvivable?
I thought the Angles were great, always very scary until they moved.

Treeborgs? Aren't they a type of mint, oh that's right that is trebor! silly me

I like the way that River and the Doctor's relationship is kind of in reverse, the first time he meets her is her death, and if the hints are to be believed, the first time she met him he died. I think it has great potential to disappoint.

A good episode, I liked the fact that anything that holds the image of an angel becomes an angel that was good.

another point that bothered me, why did the statues have one head, they thought they should have two (some great lines about the two headed aliens) because it was some kind of museum for dead aliens, but then they all had one, because why? they had all turned into Angels and angles only have one head, but they were losing their form due to not eating enough? also not sure what they feed on

Loved the count down, that was good, although it took the Doctor too long to notice.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Moonbat

Firstly how did River Song survive a decompression into space, I know she mentioned an air corridor (or something) but that was a little unscientific if you ask me, the tardis wasn't even there at first. Surely an explosive decrompresion is nihg on unsurvivable?

There would be no explosive decompression in such an case. Here's some information on the topic:

Explosive Decompression and Vacuum Exposure

Uncontrolled decompression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

River was not exposed to the vacuum for anywhere near 9-11 seconds, so would not only survive, but most likely be able to remain conscious. And, as she was prepared for the incident, there would be no "startle" factor to minimize her safety margin....

[Moonbat]

I stand corrected

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by ktabic

I'm having second thoughts on this one now. To do this properly and cause the Doctor to regenerate means they have to keep this storyline running right the way up until Matt Smith decides to retire as the Doctor

Indeed - that's why if it is the Doctor being referred to, it's not necessarily going to be a straight forward situation. To be imprisoned, she only needs to be believed to have killed.

But there is certainly plenty of open interpretations on how this will all develop, and I don't Mr Moffat is going to rush it.

Especially as in the Silence in the Library two parter, she described Tennant's Doctor as looking young - which implied she knew an older-looking Doctor - and certainly not one as young as Matt Smith.

Then again, as Dave mentioned elsewhere, the longer Doctor Who as a series runs, the harder is it for continuity to run smooth.

[thaddeus6th]

On the other hand, the advantage of a time travelling protagonist is that continuity is almost an optional extra

[Dave]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Especially as in the Silence in the Library two parter, she described Tennant's Doctor as looking young - which implied she knew an older-looking Doctor - and certainly not one as young as Matt Smith.

Then again, as Dave mentioned elsewhere, the longer Doctor Who as a series runs, the harder is it for continuity to run smooth.

I like the idea of much longer story arcs. Though I suspect he has no real idea where this will eventually go, it would be good if in say, two regenerations time, an older looking Doctor meets Song just before he does as Tennant. The meeting Queen Elizabeth I line was, I thought, just a throwaway line, but they did come back and address it later.