Firefly Would be More Successful Today

[clovis-man]

I will apologize in advance for this simplistic note. Political climate notwithstanding, I think Firefly has been so revered among its adherents (myself included) primarily because of the captivating cast of characters. That being said, I would have to say that it might not get any more favorable a reception than Dollhouse did, even today. Unfortunate.

[Dundalis]

Would be great to see another network pick this up, very good show.

[evadatam5150]

Originally Posted by Parson

I agree that I can relate to the daily struggle and grind. An American church is a lot like a small business as far as finances and struggles go. But I think for a majority of the people want something which seems more significant or at least more interesting than their own lives. Reminds me of something the Beatles sang "making all their nowhere plans for nobody."

Can't necessarily agree.. It's one thing to have bills to pay, take care of ship that's falling apart and a crew that has it's own set of issues.. It's quite another when you have a government seeking you because you're a rebel in a war you lost and feel significantly responsible for each life that was lost under your watch.. I quite clearly felt Mal's anger, regret, fear and responsibility.. It was this acting and symbolism that hooked me in the first place.. There was much much more to this than just a group struggling on the fringes of the universe.. There was a depth of despair being conquered each day by a man refusing to quit on himself and his beliefs..

That's how I saw it anyways..

[J-Sun]

I agree completely that FOX torpedoed it with the pilot/generalized scheduling idiocy and that FOX canceled it before some people even knew it was on. And people haven't even mentioned how FOX mishandled the cancellation/not-cancellation of Dark Angel which alienated part of a Dark Angel fanbase that could have been part of the Firefly fanbase. They deluded fans of that show into thinking it was coming back, then changed their minds and made it look like that show was cancelled because of Firefly. But that's kind of the key: FOXFOXFOX. Buffy was a cult "hit" for seven seasons with 4-5 million viewers. Firefly was a half-season-and-out "failure" with about 4.5 million viewers. IOW, Firefly was about as successful as Buffy. But Buffy was on WB (and then UPN), while Firefly was on FOX. Just unrealistic expectations on the part of FOX. Joss can be a genius (Dollhouse and some other things notwithstanding) but he's a niche genius, rather than a mass-market one. Why he keeps trying to work with FOX, I have no idea.

[Parson]

Originally Posted by evadatam5150

Can't necessarily agree.. It's one thing to have bills to pay, take care of ship that's falling apart and a crew that has it's own set of issues.. It's quite another when you have a government seeking you because you're a rebel in a war you lost and feel significantly responsible for each life that was lost under your watch.. I quite clearly felt Mal's anger, regret, fear and responsibility.. It was this acting and symbolism that hooked me in the first place.. There was much much more to this than just a group struggling on the fringes of the universe.. There was a depth of despair being conquered each day by a man refusing to quit on himself and his beliefs..

That's how I saw it anyways..

I don't do despair overly well, and if you're aiming for an American audience I would guess despair doesn't sell overly well to anyone. I think that would be one reason why the Star Trek stories, critically no where near as well thought of as Firefly, continue to do surprisingly well. There is a core of "We are going to get it done, and we are just strong/good/smart/etc. enough to do it." --- Still essentially the prevalent American mindset. --- I never felt that with Firefly. Firefly's crew I always thought were bugs that could be crushed if they ever became too inconvenient. For the show to gain traction for me there would have to have been an influx of power from somewhere to even the sides a bit.

[Vladd67]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

Why he keeps trying to work with FOX, I have no idea.

Hope over experience? or
They give him money?

[evadatam5150]

Originally Posted by Parson

I don't do despair overly well, and if you're aiming for an American audience I would guess despair doesn't sell overly well to anyone. I think that would be one reason why the Star Trek stories, critically no where near as well thought of as Firefly, continue to do surprisingly well. There is a core of "We are going to get it done, and we are just strong/good/smart/etc. enough to do it." --- Still essentially the prevalent American mindset. --- I never felt that with Firefly. Firefly's crew I always thought were bugs that could be crushed if they ever became too inconvenient. For the show to gain traction for me there would have to have been an influx of power from somewhere to even the sides a bit.

Perhaps that's the beauty of it.. We all see things and focus on different nuances of this or any other show.. See the despair, whether you get it or not, is a common trait that many do get.. But it wasn't the despair that attracts, but the constant struggle to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move.. Mal was still moving, trying to put the pieces back together and protect whatever sanity he and his crew had left.. It wasn't about the despair, it was about conquering it..

Also history, our history has many instances of the meek conquering the giant.. I always felt that Mal was smarter than the Alliance in many ways and never felt that he or his crew could be caught so simply and crushed.. Sure the potential was always there but I never felt as if any of their effort was futile.. People just have different ways of seeing things..

I think one of the bigger reasons for the cancellation was that this show was thrown on one of the worst nights of the week, Friday night, the black hole of TV..

[Parson]

Originally Posted by evadatam5150

I think one of the bigger reasons for the cancellation was that this show was thrown on one of the worst nights of the week, Friday night, the black hole of TV..

I was mostly talking about why I didn't think it would be MORE successful now. I would think that it could have been more successful then, and I suppose now, if it were given a better shot. Also when I was watching it, I was astounded when 3 or 4 shows in (I don't really know) they had the show that was obviously supposed to be the kick off show. It was like they were trying to have the show fail.

[THX-1138]

Originally Posted by Moonbat

Serenity is good but crams a whole host of ideas into one film, it would have been much betetr if Wheedon had got to draw it out over thens of hours.

I had to revive this thread just to say those are my thoughts exactly. You could tell those events were meant to have separate episodes.

[Rodders]

But this is always how good television SF goes. It's just never appreciated at the time.

[clovis-man]

Originally Posted by THX-1138

I had to revive this thread just to say those are my thoughts exactly. You could tell those events were meant to have separate episodes.

I recall Whedon saying in an interview that he was just glad he got a chance to put a finish to the story. But he sure had to jam a lot of stuff into a couple of episodes to get an end to Dollhouse. Ultimately, it was not at all satisfying.

[Roxy]

It was the speed in which it was cancelled which always surprised me.

[Boaz]

I hear what the OP said regarding the times and circumstances. And I hear what people are saying about FOX cancelling an expensive show to get straight to the DVD profits.

But, I never heard of the show until some friends discussed seeing Serenity in 2005. It's about the marketing. I assume the show's advertising was limited to Fox, comic books, and Star Trek conventions. Since my TV input in 2002 was limited to ESPN, I quit reading comic books twenty years previously, and I've never been to a Trekkie convention, I missed the advertising campaign.

I've watched sports on TV for over forty years. As best I can recall, I've played in 46 seasons of organized sports... football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track, cross country, and softball. So I go looking for sports to watch on TV... I don't wait for them to leap out of ads in a magazine or a billboard. Plus, I know the seasons when each is played and when the playoffs start. I do my own research for sports entertainment.

I think it's the same for people who are into Broadway musicals, new cars, hunting, and fashion. People who are into those things don't need prompting, they're already seeking out the release schedules. People are that way about their favorite musicians and authors.

Maybe I'm just not in touch with that sector of society, but I don't know anyone who loves TV shows. I basically know that the new TV season starts in September (in the U.S.) and that I could look for something new... but it does not interest me.

When I was a kid, I longed for the new TV season so I could watch Happy Days and Charlie's Angels. (Jaclyn Smith is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.) But I lost faith in TV's ability to tell a compelling story. Sure, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Laugh In, The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, Cheers, and Seinfeld were funny, but I mean a real story. Law & Order was enjoyable one hour dramas, but did they really develop McCoy, Lenny, or McCoy's assistant du jour? (That reminds me that Richard Brooks was the assistant in the first two seasons and that he also portrayed Jubal Early the bounty hunter in Firefly.)

Was Firefly marketed as a comedy? If so, that's a shame.

Firefly was smart, sassy, heroic, dramatic, rebellious, and fantasically adventurous. Somehow the advertising needed to reach me.

Or do the TV execs think that all Americans will watch something all the time? Do they think that cheaper shows will sell just as much Beer/Cars/McDonalds as expensive shows? I think that they know that a high budget, intelligent, sci-fi show will not sell one more Coke than Ow! My balls!

[clovis-man]

Saw a brief excerpt of the Comic-Con coverage on tv this past week-end. there was an interview (of sorts) featuring Nathan Fillion. He was escorted to the podium by a group of show attendees dressed as browncoats. Castle was barely mentioned. It's obvious that his affinity for Firefly hasn't lessened even after 10 (yup, count 'em) years.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Was Firefly marketed as a comedy? If so, that's a shame.

Firefly wasn't marketed at all. That was the shame.

Some of you might be missing the connection that resonates with many Americans: Mal was the civil war leader who would have been a hero... if his side hadn't lost the war by essentially (to his mind) giving up. In American history, this story begat the rebel that never accepted the war was over, never forgave the Union, and was hell-bent on living his life whilst avoiding those damned Yankees.

It's an older story than any recent anti-government sentiment, with much deeper roots in what defines an iconic American. Which is why it often surprises me that no one pushed that point far enough with Fox executives that they'd see it.

Or... maybe they did. Firefly was a blue-collar show, and the very conservative people at Fox might have been put off by the idea of a blue-collar man sticking it to The Man.