31.04: The Time of Angels

[thaddeus6th]

Thanks, Xelah

Ursa and Talysia, I completely agree.

I do hope we get a reason for the neck-snapping. It may be that, from a style perspective, getting sent back in time was a bit of a rubbishy fate, so an alternative (being murdered) was introduced to make the consequences of not blinking even worse.

[pyan]

Didn't the Doctor say that they were all trapped and dying, for lack of nourishment after killing all the indigenous inhabitants? Perhaps they've gone beyond the point of being able to kill in the old way.


Hang on, though - wasn't it the "new" Angel that killed Bob and the other two crewmen? In which case, that suggestion doesn't hold up...

[thaddeus6th]

Aye, it was the healthy Angel that killed Sacred Bob.

Hmm. Killing did allow the Angel to take on their voices, which in turn allowed it to radio for others to 'come and see'. Could argue it decided whittling the human numbers down a bit was worth more than having a snack. Also, that agrees with what I think was said regarding the ship's radiation providing it (and the older Angels) with energy.

[PTeppic]

Myself: excellent episode. Forgot it was a two-parter because of all the non-stop action.

Hoopy: I think in Confidential SM says he wanted the "wife" relationship to continue to be slightly unproven.

Dave: Will take some time to work out the complex Doctor/River timelines: it's later in his but earlier in hers; she knows him, has got the diary and can fly the TARDIS but doesn't yet have her own sonic. Oh, but apparently is already his wife or wife-like relationship.

Dave (2a): From Blink, the Weeping Angels are the Lonely Assassins, the "only psychopaths in the universe to kill you nicely"... they send you back in time (stealing the potential temporal energy of that now missing life) and let you live to death. [Ah, Hoopy already said this...] The implication is that such a mechanism is either optional (and they could just break your neck) or requires strength/energy from the Angel to initiate it.

Dave (2b): they explicitly mentioned that this was the 51st century. I wondered why they seem so fixated on that period (Girl in the Fireplace as well?)... except it makes sense with River. I'd take it that she's not out of time and basically still within her own "normal" time-frame.

Tillane: as per the above (Dave 1), since this is earlier in River's timeline, this could be the first time she's met or heard of Amy. I don't imagine he will have mentioned every one of his companions, even to a spouse. At least, not for a while.

Ace: I've always assumed that the caveat is used when one is making a general statement, not being a personal slice at the person to whom the semi-apology is made. In this case at the church in general, but not at this bishop of that church.

Hoopy (2a) - most of what the Doctor knows about most species must come from second hand information either from the Gallifreyan schools/libraries etc., or from other people. He explicitly stated he's only met the Angels once, we know there were only four of them and they were left disabled. Not sure what he'd have done with them, leaving them in the basement of Wester Drumlins or moved them somewhere safer. But, that one experience didn't really justify most evil killers in the galaxy (when, as stated, the Daleks, Cybermen etc are also out there).

Hoopy (2b) - ah good point, that I'd missed. How on Earth had River got 12000 years into the past. Well, okay, the answer is probably obvious and involves a blue wooden box but I think the "how" is going to be quite interesting, and as hinted by the bishop, maybe not good for her relationship with the Doctor.

Ursa: I was saved the animated Norton... I had the subtitles "on", and they overlay any such annoying coming-next message. On the plus side, I was so engrossed I hadn't realised how far into the episode it was and assumed some clumsy vision mixer had pushed the button by mistake.

Perpetual Man (a): not sure if you saw the preview for next week, it very clearly answered your question about the crack in the universe. More than just a flash when everyone's gone home, too.

Perpetual Man (b): the TARDIS was designed by a Blue Peter competition winner. Not sure how much of the fine detail would have been down to them and how much was the art department but I got the impression it was going to be the former. I was going to note that River seemed completely at home in the new TARDIS, but it makes sense.

Lenny: they do seem to like their cavern-like sets. However, this one was a genuine cave system, where Satan Pit was an open air quarry with CGI.

Hoopy (3)/Thaddeus/pyan/Thaddeus(2): Presumably the healthy Angel wanted to make contact with the Doctor/humans. Not sure why, entirely. But it couldn't do that if the three clerics were zapped back in time. It's probably slight artistic twisting of necessity, really, as it could have kept the voice of Christian and simply zapped-back Angelo and Sacred Bob.

Finally, myself: just realised from the Wiki page... the crash of the Byzantium is one of the diary check events River mentions in Silence in the Library.

[pyan]

Ursa: I was saved the animated Norton... I had the subtitles "on", and they overlay any such annoying coming-next message. On the plus side, I was so engrossed I hadn't realised how far into the episode it was and assumed some clumsy vision mixer had pushed the button by mistake.

I was so annoyed by this intrusive and unnecessary advertising, which, coming where it did, really upset the suspense for me, that I've sent a complaint to the BBC about it. I'll post the response I get, if any.

[SJAB]

BBC says; Sorry!

BBC News - Doctor Who fans angered by trailer for Over the Rainbow

As to last night, River Song is way to smug for me, bordering on annoying.

Also again rinse and repeat elements from previous shows or other SF shows, getting a bit tired with that.

[Dr.Jackson]

Glad to see the Beeb apologizing for it's complete miscalculation. I follow Simon Pegg on Twitter, and he wasn't happy about it either. He tweeted "Congrats to the BBC for ruining the climax to Doctor Who with a cartoon Graham Norton telling about another ***king talent show"

Apart from the BBC's pop-up advert, I enjoyed the episode, noticing the subtle references to episodes past.

On thing I latched onto was the way the Weeping Angel enticed the Clerics so it could kill them. It reminded me of Revelation 6:7 - 6:8.

6:7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living creature saying, "Come and see!"

6:8 And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death, and Hell followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him.

The last thing that they hear before seeing the Angel are the words "Come and see," and of course, the Angel means death, and it is trying to resurrect the rest of the Weeping Angels, and so Hell follows with it.

With them being part of the Church, it all makes sense to me. The Church, Angels, and a little bit of the maddest book of the Bible.

Of course, I have a history of reading into things too deeply. It's a wonderful gift that allows me to make connections that aren't there! Please feel free to smile, nod and slowly move away from the mad person.

[nj1]

Missed the saturday showing as was away so caught up on BBC3 on Sunday..great episode, really flowed well, thankfully i don't have a history of watching the show so have nothing to get hung up about, also the 'Norton Intrusion' was not in the sunday repeat so win/win for me

# On the neck snapping incedent, I was sure that Bob admitted he was lying about being killed that way after the Dr questioned the method of death#

[Dave]

Some trivia - I was just listening to The Radcliffe & Maconie Show on BBC Radio 2 and they said that the Security Guard at the very beginning of the episode, whirling round and round in a park with the big lipstick smudge on his face, was a cameo by 'The Streets' geezer-rap musician Mike Skinner. I did wonder what that was all about. Maybe someone owed him a favour. Or, maybe as Mark Davison of t5m.com thinks, he won a competition like the 'Blue Peter' contest to design Peter Kay’s monster suit?

[PTeppic]

Hypnotic lipstick, if I recall. It was how River had got aboard the Byzantium... (I assumed)

[tangaloomababe]

Oh I like this new Doctor alot. He is growing on me every week and I think Amy is a great character. Prof/Doctor River Song is such a complex character I am sure we will see alot more of her.
"When oh when does she meet HER doctor"?
So many ideas thrown up in this episode, so much to think about but I love the Angels, how can you make them so truely scarey when they don't even move? Well when your looking at them anyway! Blink was a great episode and it great learning more about them.
Yes the timey wimey stuff is very confusing.
Very much looking forward to next week. Matt Smith is showing great potential as the new Doctor.
We are all assuming River is a potential wife but she could be something else..... daughter perhaps.... Jenny may not be the only one but unlikely guess as they do seem to have more of a wife-husband relationship.. Ahhhhhh

[elfdragonlord]

I was working Saturday night so I saw it on Sunday.

This meant I avoided the Graham Norton annoyance - but funnily enough my only gripe with the episode was the ending. It didn't seem like a proper cliffhanger to me, it seemed more like they simply stopped the story in the middle.

Minor gripe though because the episode was awesome, great and excellent.

This series really is faultless so far. The Beast Below was average, the other three episodes excellent.

I hope this high quality continues.

[Lioness]

How could they do that to me? I really don't like cliffhangers.

And I really don't like River Song. Her arrogance annoys me. Her every word annoys me, how she just assumes that everything will happen just as she wishes. Oh, how I want to punch her.

But once I got past that, I loved the episode. The weeping angels continue to freak me out, and they had my sister shrunk so much into the couch that she almost went through. And she's almost 15.

I loved the "There's one thing you never ever put in a trap...me." I could see it coming, but that's the kind of thing I love about the Doctor.

Oh, and Matt Smith's growing on me. He's amazing.

And a theory...just where my mind jumped. I haven't really thought it out yet. For those who have seen more episodes, please don't spoil anything if I'm either right/wrong.

So the Weeping Angels kill by sending people back in time.
And, somehow, Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, which indicates that something's wrong in the timey-wimey department.
I'm sort of making a conclusion that somewhere between Amelia and Amy, the Angels happened. Perhaps Amelia did move away, but Amy got sent back. But then she apparently grew up there.

I don't know, but it will remain a suspicion.

And I do hope that he doesn't marry River Song. He shouldn't be bossed around by anyone, especially not someone with her attitude.