French greed?

[brian]

Simply put, the French were happy to settle for 21 million over the incident of the passenger plane bombed over the Sahara. incident. There was closure that the French were happy with - it was settled in the French court as appropriate.

Now that they find out the Lockerbie victims are awarded higher compensation, the French are talking about vetoing the lifting of sanctions against Libya - unless the French are paid $2 billion.

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds like nothing more than greed?

Or did I miss a meeting on this?

Here's the article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3178031.stm

Impasse over French bombing deal

Relatives of French victims of a 1989 airliner bombing linked to Libya have returned from Tripoli empty-handed after seeking a compensation deal equal to payments offered in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.
"There was no progress made," Guillaume Denoix de Saint Marc, a spokesman for families of some of the 170 victims of the UTA airliner bombing over Niger, told Reuters.

France has indicated that it would oppose the lifting of United Nations sanctions against Libya if the $34m deal it accepted for the UTA case were not revised upward sharply.

Britain proposed the lifting of sanctions after Tripoli agreed to pay $2.7 billion in compensation over Lockerbie.

The UK wanted to call for a prompt UN Security Council vote on lifting sanctions but put this off until this week to give the French more time to come to an agreement on the UTA payment.

US officials said on Friday that Libya had transferred $2.7bn to the Bank for International Settlements to compensate families of the 270 victims of the Lockerbie bombing.

The tragedy of UTA Flight 772, blown up over the Sahara desert in 1989, has often been forgotten amid the attention given to the fate of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie the previous year.

The French Government accepted a much smaller compensation deal, not negotiated directly with Libya, but ordered by a Paris court in 1999.

This court found six Libyans guilty in their absence and sentenced them to life imprisonment.

Last October these families launched a lawsuit demanding $2.2bn in compensation from Libya.

Colonel Gaddafi and six Libyans said to be intelligence agents were named in the suit.

[Twelve]

Ahhh, the French. I see that they're continuing to use their UN power and influence in the most...selfless of ways.



12

[brian]

The French have a nasty habit with vetos. Less that two decades after the Second World War, the French veto'ed the British from entering the European Common Market - a way for European countries to support one another's industries - on the grounds that it would mean more money for the French. The fact that Britain had been effectively bankrupted by WWII, liberating countries such as France, quickly fell from their memories.

[Twelve]

Amazing. I never knew that. Even the Swiss have their own grievances against the French. What an amazing country France is.

12

[brian]

I'm surprised the Swiss have anything against France - what do you dislike from there?

[Twelve]

Well, though the Swiss admire the romantic aspect of French culture, they can't stand French pride. You always hear complains about the conceit of French tourists, their over-the-top protection of their language, etc. The Swiss say that the French are dirty(they constantly speak of how the French part of Switzerland is dirtier than the German part, which is true). The French-speaking Swiss want to join the E.U., while the rest of Switzerland does not.
The Swiss only tease Austria more.
Now, notice that I speak of "the Swiss", as if they are seperate from myself. I don't think the same. While stereotypes are usually made for a reason, I know that there are always exceptions.
My only personal problem with the French at this time is the theme of this thread; what I believe to be the abuse of their power in the U.N.


12

[brian]

National stereotypes are certainly easy to fall for. I personally quite abhor some of the anti-German sentiment - even in joking - that we have in the UK.

However, although I'd love to explore France at some time in life - and am quite sure that most of the French people I'd meet were great - currently they do have a PR battle. Especially when - in some unrelated domestic disturbance - French lorry drivers block British traffic through Calais and French farmers burn British goods coming through.

"Humility" and "French" are not easily associated together.

Then again, I'm sure there's plenty that can be thrown at the British - our long-term experiment with yob culture, and export of soccer hooliganism, for starters.

[Twelve]

Well, the only two things that I didn't like during my time in Britain were the hospitals and the farm culture. (I was there during the big mad cow disease outbreak in early 2001).

Other than that, I'm quite fond of Britain.

I DID notice that the average Brit might have an ignorant view of German culture. I remember once I prayed in front of someone in German and said, "Gott in Himmel".

A lady said to me, "Gottinhimmel! I thought that was German bad language!"

I said, "Huh?"

She said, "Yes, in all of the World War 2 comics, before a bomb lands on a group of Germans, they always say, 'Ach, GOTTINHIMMEL!'"


12

[littlemissattitude]

export of soccer hooliganism

This is something I don't understand at all, but be assured that it isn't limited to the English or to soccer. You should see some of the stupidity that goes on after sports championship games here the the States. I cannot imagine why people would want to go out and loot and burn things, especially after their team has won.

It isn't even always associated with sports. For example, in one city (Detroit, I think, but I'm not sure) they seem to have a lot of trouble around Halloween - people there take the holiday as license to go out and start fires for no apparent reason. Even here in central California, last year at the Mardi Gras celebration in Fresno, a part of the crowd started running around breaking the windows of businesses and causing general chaos, so that they had to send everyone home.

I just don't see the attraction of this kind of behavior, myself.

[hodor]

Originally Posted by brian

National stereotypes are certainly easy to fall for. I personally quite abhor some of the anti-German sentiment - even in joking - that we have in the UK.

However, although I'd love to explore France at some time in life - and am quite sure that most of the French people I'd meet were great - currently they do have a PR battle. Especially when - in some unrelated domestic disturbance - French lorry drivers block British traffic through Calais and French farmers burn British goods coming through.

"Humility" and "French" are not easily associated together.

Then again, I'm sure there's plenty that can be thrown at the British - our long-term experiment with yob culture, and export of soccer hooliganism, for starters.

actually at the moment i believe "humility" and "usa" should not be associated. nor should "honesty"

i feel that the main reason lockerbie got more money was because it was the british that were involved in the deal with libya getting rid of its weapons. i am sure if the roles were reversed france would have had more money and the british would be whining just like the french did. all the politics aside however i feel all victims no matter what nationality should recieve the same compensation as i cant possibly imagine how to pay money for a life i find it sickening to find that some lives are worth more than others.

in regards to the french govt ... i am an american who married a french woman and my govt said because she had cancer in the past (even though it was treated and she was cleared of it) she would not be able to live in the usa for at least six years. at least when i moved here to france i didnt have any problems... within three or four months i had all my papers and was allowed to work. my health care is great. if the french govt was anything like the american govt my wife and i would be married but would not be able to live anywhere closer than 1000miles of each other.

i praise the humanity of the french

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by hodor

in regards to the french govt ... i am an american who married a french woman and my govt said because she had cancer in the past (even though it was treated and she was cleared of it) she would not be able to live in the usa for at least six years. at least when i moved here to france i didnt have any problems... within three or four months i had all my papers and was allowed to work. my health care is great. if the french govt was anything like the american govt my wife and i would be married but would not be able to live anywhere closer than 1000miles of each other.

Did you have a major and possibly resurfacing sickness prior to receiving a French work permit? If not, I am not sure that the comparison can truly apply.

I am sorry to hear that she was not allowed a working permit in the US because of your example. It seems a bit insensitive.

[Leto]

Originally Posted by McMurphy

Did you have a major and possibly resurfacing sickness prior to receiving a French work permit? If not, I am not sure that the comparison can truly apply.

To my knowledge, cancer healed (even with possibility to resurface) is not an obstacle to receive a carte de séjour (French residency permit), especially for someone married to a French person.

[hodor]

i have had a cancerous tumor removed in the past. but she was not refused just a working permit... but the right to stay in the usa for more than her passport allowed period. which is why i visit the usa just once a year. France is a great country. I love it here. I feel sorry for my american compatriots who have to deal with the current admin.

[McMurphy]

Then there is certainly a difference of policy in regards to residential permits between the two countries. Thank you both for educating me on the subject. From the information that both of you have provided, I now, too, wish the United States had its policies in relation to this subject matter more like that of the French.

[Leto]

Originally Posted by McMurphy

Then there is certainly a difference of policy in regards to residential and working permits between the two countries. Thank you both for educating me on the subject. From the information that both of you have provided, I now, too, wish the United States had its policies in relation to this subject matter more like that of the French.

Not everything is pink here too. For some people the renewing of their permit can be quite tricky.
And in my case, I still sometimes have to show the naturalization paper for my mother to have an ID made, even if my father and I are French by birth. All depends on the degree of racism and ignorance of the civil servant in front of me.