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Old 25th July 2010, 03:21 PM   #61 (permalink)
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re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Anyone else feel, as an F1 fan, curiously deflated by the way that the German Grand Prix was decided?...
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Old 25th July 2010, 03:28 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

If by "curiously deflated" you mean disgusted and yet unsurprised at Ferrari's antics, then yes. I just wonder if it might come back to bite them - given that team orders like that are against the rules, I'm sure Red Bull will be putting in a complaint.
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:06 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Definitely an anticlimax (despite me wanting a Ferrari victory).
I feel for Massa.

But let's not forget that all teams do this. It's not the first time I've heard a radio call of so and so is faster than you or hold station.

Coulthard was right when he said all the teams do this when they need to. It's not right but it's not just Ferrari that do this. But this time Ferrari were far too blatant about doing it.
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:35 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

hmm, maybe we should move this thread to the lounge, since F1 has just proved it is not a sport...
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:52 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Well, the stewards weren't impressed...

Quote:
Ferrari have been fined $100,000 for breaching sporting regulations after appearing to implement team orders during the German Prix.

The Italian team has also been referred to the sport's governing body, the FIA, after Felipe Massa slowed down to allow team-mate Fernando Alonso past to win.

However the result of the race, won by Alonso from Massa, is unaffected.
BBC Sport - F1 - Ferrari fined $100,000 but result stands
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:59 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

i did watch it this afternoon, having a rare sunday free - i remember being genuinely excited by the races back in the 80s and early 90s, but this just left me horribly underwhelmed. i don't remember everything having to hinge on off-track strategies back then (though is that the naivety of youth? if so, maybe i'm too old for F1...). it's a little like watching Sheff Utd vs Wolves, knowing that one manager has already agreed to a 3-1 scoreline.
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Old 26th July 2010, 05:29 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

A pitstop is an off-track strategy so that kind of off-track thinking has been around since they began.

Does anybody really believe that the flurry of radio traffic between the Mclaren pitwall and their drivers in Istanbul was not coded to tell them to stop trying to overtake each other in the latter stages?

Another example - Hamilton was told to hold station in Monaco 2007 (and wasn't happy about it).

Telling a driver to hold his position is as much influencing the outcome of the race as saying he is faster than you.

And what happens when they get it wrong? Again - Istanbul this year(Red Bull).

F1 a sport? probably not - more of a hybrid of sport, technology and sponsorship.

Andrew Benson makes a good point on the BBC website - nobody complained when Massa handed his position to Raikonnen in 2007 to allow him to win the championship. Why?
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Old 26th July 2010, 08:58 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

$100k is peanuts. It'd be like charging someone on an ordinary income 20.

Ferrari got away with this. A 5s time penalty for Alonso would've been just.

It's a good point about Turkey. The problem is with the holding station order that we know F1 cars need to run in fuel-saving mode for at least part of the race. If that's the case, not ordering them to conserve fuel would be insane.

In this instance, it's 100% clear that Ferrari issued a team order, and 100% clear that this is against the rules of F1. The FIA gave Ferrari a slap on the wrist, and they got away with it.
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Old 26th July 2010, 10:31 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

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Originally Posted by thaddeus6th View Post
$100k is peanuts. It'd be like charging someone on an ordinary income 20.

Ferrari got away with this. A 5s time penalty for Alonso would've been just.
I certainly agree that 100k is peanuts to Ferrari and that a win is worth much more.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso does receive a time penalty (and thus reverse the result). The fine was set by the stewards but the issue is to go in front of the FIA so it is probably far from finished. I think they may do something that will send out a warning to all teams (and therefore I think it may be something draconian).
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Old 26th July 2010, 06:16 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
but the issue is to go in front of the FIA so it is probably far from finished. I think they may do something that will send out a warning to all teams (and therefore I think it may be something draconian).
I'd like to share your sentiments, but this is the "Ferrari International Assistance" we're talking about, headed by Jean Todt...
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Old 26th July 2010, 06:20 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Okay. I am an Alonso fan but I couldn't resist doing this. He's become something of a pantomime villain so here's my view of him preparing for the Hungarian Grand Prix
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Old 27th July 2010, 08:28 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

It's his own fault he's reviled. If he were faster than Massa he should've passed him.

Hungary's next up. I think it's where Massa got thwacked in the noggin by a bloody big spring at high speed.
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Old 1st August 2010, 04:45 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Those Red Bulls were simply awesome around the Hungaroring!
Great victory for Webber and a costly mistake for Vettel cost him second place. Alonso did very well to get between the Red Bulls and stay there to snatch second place.

Hamilton failing to finish has really helped close the bunch aiming for the championship and it could be a photo-finish at the end.

Mayhem in the pitlane helped gee up what I thought would be a fairly boring race.

And finally.....a ten grid penalty for Schumi for a move that was downright dangerous. The stewards got it right as far as I'm concerned.

Next race at Spa and I'll be there to watch it all unfold
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Old 1st August 2010, 10:55 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

The Vettel mistake was weird... as is his incredibly bad conversion rate of poles to wins.

Spa's fantastic, hope you get a great race
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Old 2nd August 2010, 04:32 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Re: F1 2010. (caution - may contain result spoilers just after a race...)

Saw an interview with Vettel later. It seems that he had intermittent radio problems and was not really aware of when the safety car was going in.

We also tend to forget that he is still just young guy learning his craft. I'd put money on him being a multi world champ in the next few years.

One thing is for sure - if Red Bull iron out all of their little problems, the rest of the grid will be left behind. This must be one of the best cars designed by Newey.
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