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| Registered User | Chapter 1, Part 1 Hi, here is the first part of my chapter 1 (20 years before the exciting prologue), The Hunter as a little boy. I had a comment on my web site that I don't really understand, about confusing PoV's and stuff: Chapter 1, Part 1 | Skip The Budgie Just wondering if you chaps had any comments? "...our land, our country. We will not go forward into this night as slaves - no - we will challenge our foes as warriors! When they look back upon this day they will remember us: the few who died to save the lives of many." |
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| | #2 (permalink) | |||
| weaver of the unseen Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,301
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
There's nothing here that's especially wrong, although it does feel as I've seen it before. Probably this particular scene has been used too many times in the films. The only criticism here is the way he slowly raises his fist, when I think he should punch it in the air. Quote:
This is the bit that they're calling head-hopping, where you go from Captain to young boy. The way they want to see you going is to stick with one character and use it to to narrate your story. Right, the people that reads your story want to obviously read one character head, and you again, do a slight case of head-hopping in the end. What I would suggest you to do is to rewrite the whole chapter, and when you do so, try to pain one picture from one narrators POV. Here you waver between the heads as you use OMNISCIENT NARRATOR to do the narrative. This is what puts off your readers. | |||
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Truth and Order Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 961
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 I haven't gone to your website, Dash, but I think the first problem may be that people aren't realising that the beginning speech is in fact in the boy's imagination - they are taking it as a real speech by a real man, and they are then becoming confused when you swoop into the boy's POV. I'm not holding myself out as being cleverer than they are in this, since I too read it that way to begin with, and only clicked when you started talking about the cat - the line about the Red Leader I also took at face value, which confused me again. In case this is a problem for others, and not just me and ctg, it might be helpful if you make it clear that he is doing a Walter Mitty as soon as possible. Instead of having the boy leap off the tree stump -- since it is entirely possible he has watched some kind of real scene of heroism from there -- have him first take off his Brave Captain Hat and replace it with his Fighter Ace Hat, or something of that kind. You then do lurch into a change of POV when you show us the boy from the cat's viewpoint, in two separate sections. I can see why they are there, but I'm not sure they work. However, I am far from an expert on POV, so it may be that others will think differently on that point. However, you then, as ctg says, definitely go into omniscient narrator, so as to get into the heads of the neighbour, the other villagers, the other children etc, and relating things which the boy himself could not know. This again does seem disruptive to me and I'm usually very laid back about these things. I think one way to help reduce the unsettling feeling it creates is perhaps to put an asterisk or two after the paragraph ending 'supper', as this will show that there is a change of POV. Even then, I think those last 3 paragraphs need to be rethought a little. With luck someone who knows more about this than I do may come and help you out on that point. Speaking of those last 3 paras, I'm not sure if the problem simply is the odd POV. Re-reading them I'm still left uncertain as to what is happening, but not in a way as to make me eager to read on and find out. It isn't suspense I'm feeling, so much as obfuscation. I'm a nit-picky critiquer. On that score, there are a few issues. You are getting your punctuation wrong with your dialogue attribution. There are posts on this in The Toolbox, a sticky at the top of Aspiring Writers, which I suggest you read, but basically in the line "Steady boys, steady" He whispered there should be a comma after 'steady' and the 'he' should start with a lower case 'h', so ' "Steady boys, steady," he whispered.' Where you have a question mark or an exclamation mark at the end of the dialogue, as in "Onwards men!" He shouted. again it should be followed by 'he' not 'He'. You're a little careless sometimes with your other punctuation. For instance, Nobody who met him really understood why he behaved like this, he seemed to be surrounded by The Shadow requires at least a semi-colon in place of the comma after 'this' and The little boy knew it, the neighbours knew it. The other children at school knew it, although only he saw it as a physical entity either you need to make it all one long sentence, or two sentences breaking it before 'although', or 4 separate sentences - at present it is unbalanced and the last subclause bears no relation to the other children alone. Also, you omit commas sometimes, eg a daring sideways dive over the pond there and causing little flashes of gold needs a comma after 'there' to balance the sentence; and Thomas, the fat tabby cat barely escaped needs one after 'cat' to complete the subclause. Quickly reading I didn't see there was a mention of the boy's age, but I'm seeing him as being under the age of 10 in view of his acting out his imagination in this way. That being the case I have grave difficulty believing he would come out with words and phrases like 'righteous rhetoric' and 'disconsolate slumber' when he is make-believing. Have you thought about his vocabulary at all? If he were relating a real scene of this kind to a friend (if he had one) would he use those words? Incidentally, I'm assuming that you know that neither 'righteous' nor 'disconsolate' are correct adjectives for the situation, and that this is the boy's ignorance not yours. The cliched phrases and the excessive alliteration which appear I'm also (perhaps charitably) assuming are there because this kind of thing appeals to the boy. Just make sure you leave the worst excesses behind when you go further out from his POV. Also, I'd suggest avoiding homophones wherever possible so a sudden blur of fur needs to be re-thought. A couple of odd words. Cats wash, they don't have a 'bath'. When possible avoid using 'now' and 'this' when writing in the past tense, and definitely manage without 'today' - the latter in particular can cause confusion. Finally, the imagery in at the tiny people like so many ants in a model village far, far below shouldn't this be 'at the ants like tiny people in a model village' or simply 'at the tiny people like ants' omitting the rest? Or do you mean 'at the tiny people far, far below, like ants in a model village'? Hope this helps a little |
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 @ctg Right... So the point is that the little boy is playing in the garden and he is all the characters, ie. playing at being a captain, a pirate and an adventurer. Is it that hard to grasp? I have no idea how I can change the end of the scene as I think the omniscient part is important. Thanks for the feedback, I'll have to really focus on this PoV thing I think! |
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| | #5 (permalink) |
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 @The Judge, thanks for the nitpicking! All good points! I hadn't realised that you should use lower case after exclamation marks in dialogue. Will look at the other points you've made too. I was trying to be a little cryptic with the play acting, but I suspect it's the trap of me knowing what is going on and not making it clear enough. |
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| | #6 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
Quote:
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| | #7 (permalink) | |
| Truth and Order Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 961
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
** a downside is, before I got the joke -- and bearing in mind this is the first chapter (I must have missed your prologue) -- I had grave reservations about your writing skills!! | |
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| | #8 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
Re: the 'everybody knew it' sentence, I was thinking of changing it to: Quote:
What I was hoping to convey, now that I think about it critically, was the idea that he senses something Bad (The Shadow) and he uses fantasy/play to keep The Shadow at bay. PS: 'blur of fur' is not strictly a homophone, but I presume you are referring to the fact the words are rhyming? Last edited by Dash; 1st February 2010 at 10:42 PM.. | ||
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| | #9 (permalink) | |||
| Truth and Order Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 961
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
By the way, your intended sentence: The Shadow was getting stronger, the little boy could feel it. The neighbours had noticed it. The other children at school, too. But only he saw it as a physical entity, for most it was just an uncomfortable feeling when they encountered him. Again, I'd query the punctuation - at least a semi-colon after 'entity' I think. If you read it aloud there's a longer pause than you would give to a comma. I know this is in omniscient narrator, but I didn't like the use of the word 'Shadow' for what the boy feels since he wouldn't know it by that name. Although you used the word in the original version, because you gave everyone's else's reaction to it first it wasn't so jarring. And if I'm being very pernickity, I'd advise against the 'The neighbours had noticed it' line - both for alliteration and rhythm. Actually, there's an irregularity about the rhythm of the whole para which I find unsettling. But that's probably just me. | |||
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| ...Prepare Thyself | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 J: Interestingly enough I had no problem with the opening lines and the boy (for what it's worth )I picked up on it as soon as he jumped of the log. I'm wondering if this is because I was that boy in my younger years before the time of television; when we had to amuse ourselves with cardboard boxes, table leg machine guns and birds for aircraft to shoot at. Is this a gender thing do you think. I would suggest that for a seven year old the tone and language is a bit too adult though. It was more like "Come on men let's get 'em" in my day. I don't remember the Gettysburg's Address or Henry V and his fighting them on the beeches speech at that age. |
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| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Truth and Order Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 961
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Quote:
As to whether it's a gender thing, I dunno. Perhaps we ought to have a poll. 'Who was confused by the opening of Dash's Chapter 1?'! It does seem there is a risk of it happening though, which is why perhaps a word or two to make it clear might not go amiss. By the way, Dash, I went and had a look at your link to see that woman's comments and I think you're perhaps misinterpreting her 'bad writing' remark. As I understand it, she's making the same point I was when I said I'd initially had doubts about your writing skills. The grandiose language you use for the boy's make-believing is cliched and overblown and the whole 'scene' of those first two paras is, let's face it, cheesy. Which is the point, of course, because the little boy is having a ball and he is thinking in these cliched cheesy terms. Unfortunately, there are people who put their work on the web (and, even more unfortunately on this site from time to time) who write at this level and who wouldn't intend it to be ironic. So, my (and presumably, her) first thoughts were here comes another one! That image is dispelled, of course, once we get into it. PS TEiN, dear friend, Henry fought them in the breaches (and possibly breeches - I'm not au fait with 15th century menswear...) and the Gettysburgs' address is c/o National Cemetery, Pennsylvania if you still need it. | |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 "I don't remember the Gettysburg's Address or Henry V and his fighting them on the beeches speech at that age. " Really? I was a real one for make-believe and I used to make up the grandest speeches! Mostly stolen from the A-Team, mind you... |
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| | #14 (permalink) |
| Registered User | Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Okay so I've attempted a re-write, trying to focus on language and the boy's PoV - the only place where I had real trouble was the very end, which is still omniscient, but I want to stress the importance of the old man at this stage (all to be revealed very soon in the chapter). '...our land, our country. We won't go into the night like slaves - no - we will fight our enemies like warriors! When they look back on today they will remember us: the few who died to save the lives of many.' |
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| | #15 (permalink) |
| Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 52
| Re: Chapter 1, Part 1 Well, I didn't have any trouble understanding what was going on, if that helps! But I did things like that when I was a kid, including making speeches to chickens that sounded like a hardboiled detective novel, and I once wrote a story about those exploits, too! So I may not be the best person to judge it. |
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