Demon - Chapter 2

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by gary compton

Has anyone written a book totally in first person?

Thousands, but almost always from only one POV. I've never seen a book with several different first-person POV characters (though that doesn't mean they don't exist). If each voice was distinctive, and there was no possibility of confusing who was "speaking", it might work. In any case it might be a good idea to try rewriting some chapters from first-person to get a fresh angle on the character or scene, and see how it goes.

I dont think telling from Bartletts POV would work on some scenes as A, he's not in them an B, he doesnt know about what happened in that particular scene.

But can't we pretend that he found out afterwards? Remember, he's telling the story when the events are past, maybe decades in the past. If a story's good enough, a reader would be willing to overlook questions like that. All first person narratives involve a certain amount of reader cooperation - unless it's actually stated that the narrator is writing down his memoirs, or speaking the story to someone, how likely is it that they would come out with all this stuff?

[gary compton]

Originally Posted by HareBrain

But can't we pretend that he found out afterwards? Remember, he's telling the story when the events are past, maybe decades in the past. If a story's good enough, a reader would be willing to overlook questions like that. All first person narratives involve a certain amount of reader cooperation - unless it's actually stated that the narrator is writing down his memoirs, or speaking the story to someone, how likely is it that they would come out with all this stuff?

So let me get this right you write it as if Bartlett was the narrator but in first person as if he was telling you the story?

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by gary compton

So let me get this right you write it as if Bartlett was the narrator but in first person as if he was telling you the story?

That's it. I'm just saying it might be worth thinking about. So, imagine you're Bartlett, say ten years after the events of the story, and you want to tell what happened. You'd write it so that in the sections you were present in, the main character would be "I", and in the sections you're not in, you tell it from another character's POV, but in your own voice and style ("you" being Bartlett, obviously).

Now, I have thought of one example of this - or rather, one author, several examples. They're supposed to be non-fiction books, but written as stories, so I see no reason why it couldn't work in fiction. If you can get hold of them, try reading The Seventh Sword, or The Black Alchemist, two books on "psychic questing" by Andrew Collins. These are first-person narratives, but where he goes into other people's POV when he isn't present.

[gary compton]

Originally Posted by HareBrain

That's it. I'm just saying it might be worth thinking about. So, imagine you're Bartlett, say ten years after the events of the story, and you want to tell what happened. You'd write it so that in the sections you were present in, the main character would be "I", and in the sections you're not in, you tell it from another character's POV, but in your own voice and style ("you" being Bartlett, obviously).

Now, I have thought of one example of this - or rather, one author, several examples. They're supposed to be non-fiction books, but written as stories, so I see no reason why it couldn't work in fiction. If you can get hold of them, try reading The Seventh Sword, or The Black Alchemist, two books on "psychic questing" by Andrew Collins. These are first-person narratives, but where he goes into other people's POV when he isn't present.

I'm re-writing the prologue and will post it to see if you think it works. Will prob finish it tomorrow now.

[ctg]

What HB says is the way I thought you could do it, but I also were thinking since you already have established a strong narrative voice that you could somehow bridge the scene together in some other way. Maybe even using Barlett reading, watching or having a conversation with someone, and that little spark leads to the third person 'actually it happened in this way' scene.

[gary compton]

Okay thanks to Harebrain and CTG for their input. It has been invaluble.

So I've decided to do all the scenes with my protagonist in 1st person and it seems to work better (See above).

On Harebrains advice I've tried to write a scene that Bartlett wasnt in from his POV - does it work? He does become aware of these events later in the book so he could be a genuine narrator.



Fifteen years before my birth back in nineteen fifty three, there was a covert mission taking place that would indirectly change my life forever. Agent Gideon lay low in a shallow foxhole preparing for the most important mission that Mosad had ever attempted. It was dark and the soft beams from the half-moon reflected off the nearby lake’s shimmering surface and covered Gideon in a patchwork of multi coloured light. He was surrounded by an army of pines who stood guard like proud soldiers of the forest whilst seven combatants hid in their shadows.


Gideon, whose life would play much more of a part in my own make-up than I’d like to admit to right now, wriggled uncomfortably as a body numbing cold rose from moist earth below his belly. After catching a glimpse of the target a burst of excitement flushed away the coldness and his eyes locked onto the cottage window and can you blame him. He was staring at a man who’d supposedly killed himself eight years earlier. All the evidence put forward by the Allies pointed to that conclusion and yet there he was – Adolph Hitler alive and well and living in Argentina. Even though Mosad had known he was there for eighteen months and Gideon had had the cottage under surveillance for a few days. It didn’t take away the shock of seeing this tyrant for the first time.


Gideon had pinched himself to make sure he wasn’t dreaming. And he wasn’t, it was the worlds best kept secret, and who do you think was behind the wall of deception? If the mission had been successful that day, the news would have re-written history and probably caused the collapse of the Catholic Church. Anyway we know now that the mission didn’t go according to plan and that those events that dark night were swept under the deep pile carpet that is Vatican City. If I have anything to do with it those brave men wont have lost their lives for nothing but there’s a lot of work to do.


Hitler had eventually disappeared from the window on that fateful day and the light had been switched off. That hadn’t worried Gideon too much who’d swept his binoculars across to Agents Seth and Enos, who were in close proximately. The movement of twigs and foliage on their helmets gave away their position to him but they were well hidden from the enemy. Nabal was at the back of the cottage within radio signal. Enos and Samuel were in the snipers nest and would cover the rest of the team when they attacked.


Gideon, still buzzing from seeing Hitler, sucked in a mouthful of the crisp morning air. He understandably felt excited at the night’s prospect. It was quiet below the forest’s dark canopy except the croaks and guttural sounds of the night creatures going about their business. That’s the way he wanted it to stay but suddenly a sharp crack reverberated around them. Now in that situation I would have sh*t myself but Gideon being the highly trained agent that he was picked up his machine gun and sighted down its barrel. The only thing that interrupted the silence was the sound of the waves lapping onto the lakeshore. It was pretty clear that if the guards had realised what had been going on, re-enforcements would have surrounded them in no time at all. Gideon and his agents would disappear like many others before them, probably into a shallow grave somewhere close with a bullet in the back of their heads.


He gently squeezed the trigger of his machine gun; anything that moved would be taken out. Gideon waited for an attack but nothing came and he eventually gave the signal for his men to stand down. The problem now for the agents was that streaks of greyish light were filling the sky and the birds had started their morning chorus, time was definitely running out. They would have to move soon whether Hitler and his guards slept or not.


To his surprise, the lounge light came back on. Gideon’s heart fluttered while he refocused his binoculars on the window, which stood out from cottage’s ghostly white background. Hitler stood there for all to see, he didn’t have the trademark moustache and his hair was greying but even with some plastic surgery it was clearly him. He was arguing heatedly with one of his guards – but where were the other four? Gideon knew Nabal should have them covered but he’d wanted confirmation before they went in. You know what can sometimes happen in these situations and Gideon knew that also – things go badly wrong so it was imperative that he spoke to Nabal.


‘Are you in position, Nabal?’ he whispered into the radio as a knot of apprehension twisted his stomach.

Gideon waited … the radio crackled intermittently.

The drone of the radio silence went on and on.

And on...

No reply came.


If Nabal had been eliminated the mission would have to be terminated, the uncertainty ate away at him and he contemplated an exit strategy. Thankfully his training kicked in and he forced the negative thoughts from his mind and whispered into the radio again.


‘Can you confirm your position, Nabal?’ All possibilities went through Gideon’s mind. If Nabal had been captured its unlikely Hitler would have been arguing with one of his men, they would have him securely tucked away from any threat and not standing in front of a window so where the hell is Nabal?


‘Agent Nabal, please confirm your status. Are you in position?’
The radio crackled again…then out of the white noise. ‘Affirmative,’ came the reply. ‘I’m in position and the package is ready for delivery.’ Gideon felt elated and allowed himself a coy smile, they’re back in business.


‘It’s good to hear from you Nabal,’ he whispered. ‘I only have eyeball on one guard. Can you confirm the whereabouts of the others?’


The radio crackled again. ‘Affirmative. They are playing cards in the kitchen at the rear of the building.’ Gideon swapped glances with Ephraim who was camouflaged in army combat clothing, black boots laced up to his shins and greasepaint smudged across his face and nodded the order to attack.

[HareBrain]

Gary, that was an interesting experiment but it doesn't work, I'm afraid - the narrator is much too intrusive, commenting on the events from the time he's writing it, and it pulls us out of the story.

In your first person section, Bartlett wasn't commenting from the time he was writing, he was there in the moment, as the action was happening. We didn't know he was telling the story years later, we just assumed.

What I meant by using Bartlett's voice for the third-person scenes, like this prologue, is so there isn't a big mismatch in styles from the third-person to the first-person scenes. But that doesn't mean Bartlett himself has to appear at all in the third-person ones. (I hope this makes sense, please tell me if it doesn't.) What I was trying to get you to do was ease yourself out of the stiff third-person voice you had before, but on reflection I think Bartlett's own voice is too strong, it needs to be toned down a bit for the third-person stuff. Imagine he's been to a creative writing class!

What you're trying to do, effectively having a first-person story with third-person chapters, is very different, so it's not surprising it might take a lot of experimenting to get right. It really might be an idea to look at that Seventh Sword book though.

[ctg]

I wouldn't say it's bad because this is the prologue. It has a very strong narrative, which could of course be taken down a notch, or two. If you want you could leave it as it is, or then you can alter it and start to wheel us into Gideon's head after first paragraph, leaving the narrator to play a role of a whisperer. Because that is what you want to do in the third person chapters later on. The reason is that it will show your skill as a writer, and it'll be no different than what the 'big boys are doing.

And yes, I'm advertising head-hopping, done in a correct way.

And a note, Mossad (By The Way of Deception We Will Win) is spelled with two S.

[The Judge]

I don't know if it makes sense to Gary, HareBrain, but it doesn't to me!

Ignoring the paras where Bartlett makes his intrusions (the first three and para five, I think), the rest of it is written in standard third person as far as I can see. It didn't strike me that in these latter half the narrator is too intrusive, or his voice too strong. Do you see a problem here? If not, then all Gary has to do is eliminate all the first person stuff in the first half. If you think there is a problem still, it might help Gary if you pointed out specifics, since it is a difficult issue to follow sometimes.

There are other issues, Gary, notably tense usage and punctuation which you really have to master, before we get to the nit-picking of word choice. Have a good read through both The Toolbox and 2ndchance's recent pieces on critiques as there have been quite a few posts on these points.
J

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by The Judge

I don't know if it makes sense to Gary, HareBrain, but it doesn't to me!

Ignoring the paras where Bartlett makes his intrusions (the first three and para five, I think), the rest of it is written in standard third person as far as I can see. It didn't strike me that in these latter half the narrator is too intrusive, or his voice too strong. Do you see a problem here? If not, then all Gary has to do is eliminate all the first person stuff in the first half. If you think there is a problem still, it might help Gary if you pointed out specifics, since it is a difficult issue to follow sometimes.

It was those bits where Bartlett makes his direct comments that I meant when I said his voice was "intrusive". If those were removed, that would deal with almost all the intrusiveness. (But see below **.) We're then left with standard third-person, but it's third-person where we should be able to imagine it being written by Bartlett, so as to avoid too much of a clash with the first-person sections. And even with those intrusive bits removed, I think the voice feels a little inconsistent. Take this bit as an example both of where it works and where it doesn't:

Originally Posted by gary compton

To his surprise, the lounge light came back on. Gideon’s heart fluttered while he refocused his binoculars on the window, which stood out from cottage’s ghostly white background. Hitler stood there for all to see, he didn’t have the trademark moustache and his hair was greying but even with some plastic surgery it was clearly him. He was arguing heatedly with one of his guards – but where were the other four? Gideon knew Nabal should have them covered but he’d wanted confirmation before they went in. You know what can sometimes happen in these situations and Gideon knew that also – things go badly wrong so it was imperative that he spoke to Nabal.

Most of the first para I would say is well done - I can imagine Bartlett writing it, but it doesn't have the in-your-face quality of the first-person section at post#6. I think this is a good balance. I would take out the "You know" bit though, because this is again Bartlett intruding as a commentator rather than storyteller (which I would allow him to do in his "own" chapters, but not in these).

‘Are you in position, Nabal?’ he whispered into the radio as a knot of apprehension twisted his stomach.

Gideon waited … the radio crackled intermittently.

The phrase "knot of apprehension twisted in his stomach" and the word "intermittently", I'm not sure about. They don't feel so much like Bartlett's words to me, and I'd be interested to know if they're carried over from the previous, omniscient-narrator version.

** Coming back to the intrusive bits, the problem for me is that they break me out of the story, make me too aware that someone is telling it. However, on reflection it might work to make us aware of that right at the start, before we get into the story and Gideon. So maybe keep the first one, at the opening of the first paragraph, and lose the others?

Gary, (and Judge) hope that clears things up a bit, but let me know if not. Remember too that these are just ideas, and I don't know if they'll work. You can only find out by experimenting.

[gary compton]

Hey Guy's this is bloody hard is'nt it? But it's fun in a sick sort of way

I'll put below my original version of the prologue before I started experimenting on Bartlett being the narrator. See which you think is better.

The soft beams from the half-moon reflected off the nearby lake’s shimmering surface and covered Agent Gideon in a patchwork of multi coloured light. Lying low in a shallow foxhole halfway up the Andean Mountain, he stared out through the cypress trees. The legions of pines stood guard like proud soldiers of the forest while he and six combatants hid in their shadows.


Gideon wriggled uncomfortably, as a body numbing cold rose from moist earth below his belly. Suddenly a burst of excitement flooded his body and gave him a renewed impetus. Through his binoculars, he’d caught a glimpse of the target arguing with one of his men. Having watched the cottage since dusk, the plan was to attack in the early hours, when hopefully the target and his guards would be asleep.

It’ll not be long now you bastard, it’s time you paid for your crimes.

Gideon’s locked his eyes on the window, he couldn’t believe he was staring at Adolph Hitler who’d cleverly got the Allies to believe he’d killed himself at the Fuhrerbunker in forty five. Even though Mosad had known he was here for eighteen months and Gideon had had him under surveillance for a few weeks now. He still had to pinch himself to make sure he wasn’t dreaming. If Gideon was successful today, the news would shock the world, and the trial of this hated tyrant would re-write history and bring retribution to a man who’d tormented the world.


Hitler disappeared from the window and the light went off. Gideon swept his binoculars across to Agents Seth and Enos, who were in close proximately. The movement of twigs and foliage on their helmets gave away their position to him but they were well hidden to the enemy. Nabal was at the back of the cottage within radio signal. Enos and Samuel were in the snipers nest and would cover the rest of the team when they attacked.


Gideon sucked in a mouthful of the crisp morning air, he felt excited at the nights prospect. Below the forest’s dark canopy, everything was quiet except the croaks and guttural sounds of the night creatures going about their business. That’s the way he wanted it but suddenly a sharp crack reverberated around them. Gideon picked up his machine gun and sighted down its barrel, only the sound of the waves lapping onto the lakeshore interrupted the silence.


If they realise what’s going on, we’re fu**ed.


He gently squeezed the trigger of his machine gun; anything that moved would be taken out. There was an eerie silence, which unnerved Gideon…

He waited...

And waited…

No movement…no counter attack…nothing.

Gideon’s emotions built, cold air snaked from his mouth. Come on you bastards! He shouted in his head as the fear of imminent attack welled up inside his gut. His heart pounded as he counted the seconds going by. After what seemed an age but was under a minute hesignalled the all clear. The adrenalin rush had left him breathless. Streaks of greyish light began to fill the sky and the birds started their morning chorus, Gideon checked his watch.

Time is running out, we’ll have to move soon whether they sleep or not.

The lounge light came back on, Gideon refocused his binoculars. The window stood out from cottage’s ghostly white background. Hitler continued his heated discussion with the guard – but where were the other four?

Nabal should have them covered, but I need confirmation.

The early morning chorus was now escalating into a full blown nature’s symphony and Gideon knew it was time to attack.
‘Are you in position, Nabal?’ he whispered into the radio as a knot of apprehension twisted his stomach.
Gideon waited … the radio crackled intermittently.

Was Nabal dead?

The drone of the radio silence went on and on,
And on...
No reply came.

The mission will have to be terminated. Come on, where are you?

Gideon felt sick; if Nabal had been eliminated they were ****** and Hitler would be safe. Thoughts of an exit strategy entered his mind, his brow tightened as he contemplated the mission’s failure.

It’s too soon to give up; I don’t want to think about it yet.

He forced the negative thoughts from his mind and whispered into the radio again.

‘Can you confirm your position, Nabal?’

Gideon knew the target’s bodyguards were serious opponents. Had Agent Nabal got too close to them? He nervously moistened the corners of his mouth with his tongue as he went through every possibility in his head.

If Nabal had been captured its unlikely Hitler would have been arguing with one of his men, they would have him secure and away from any threat.

His eyes darted around uneasily while he waited for Nabal.

Where the hell is he?

‘Agent Nabal, please confirm your status. Are you in position?’
The radio crackled again…then out of the white noise. ‘Affirmative,’ came the reply. ‘I’m in position and the package is ready for delivery.’ Gideon felt elated and he allowed himself a coy smile.

We’re back in business.

‘It’s good to hear from you Nabal,’ he whispered. ‘I only have eyeball on one guard. Can you confirm the whereabouts of the others?’
The radio crackled again. ‘Affirmative. They are playing cards in the kitchen at the rear of the building.’ Gideon stared at Ephraim who was camouflaged in army combat clothing, black boots laced up to his shins and greasepaint smudged across his face.

Gideon nodded the order to attack.

[HareBrain]

I have to admit, I think the original is stronger. But that isn't a disaster. As an experiment, I tried reading it and then immediately jumping to post#6, to see if the switch jarred. It did, a little, but not as much as I expected. Maybe if you smartened up Bartlett's section a bit - consistent past tense, etc - then Bartlett could still be the narrator of your original prologue.

BTW, I just noticed that ctg recommended an Alistair Reynolds book that combined first and third person. Ctg, how does he do that - is it anything like Gary's trying to do?

[gary compton]

When you say original do you mean the one I've just posted or the one with Bartlett as the narrator?

I've ordered that book CTG has mentioned by the way

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by gary compton

When you say original do you mean the one I've just posted or the one with Bartlett as the narrator?

Oh yeah, I can see how that was confusing .

I meant the one you just posted.