(Closed) Thomas the Tank Engine Railroaded?

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by skeptical

Don't feel bad about this, Teresa. Males are just as irrational when it comes to attracting females. Young women are frequently attracted to high status males. For this reason, young men will do almost anything, no matter how risky, expensive, or uncomfortable, to gain status and look good in the eyes of the fairer sex. What other rational reason could there be for a young man to take up boxing?

I don't feel bad about it. I just think your view of women is very stereotypical. However, Wonder Woman, and this whole line of discussion is increasingly OT, and in the absence of any other moderator telling us to knock it off, I'll do it myself. Teresa and skeptical: stop derailing the topic. There.

Originally Posted by Parson

Why not do the study on Power Rangers, or Teenage Mutant Turtles, or something else that makes my grandson run around the house "Hi Yawing" all over the place?

How do we know that someone hasn't done that study already? Why would doing the study of Thomas preclude the other?

[Parson]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

How do we know that someone hasn't done that study already? Why would doing the study of Thomas preclude the other?

The answers are obvious. I don't know if someone hasn't done that study. Doing the study would not preclude doing the other.

In the end it comes down to this. I just don't see any clear and present danger in spending some time in Thomas' world. I still believe that the study was largely a waste of time and resources, but that's only my opinion and I don't have any say so about what this researcher or any other spends their time on. I can simply hope that they will study things that are more likely detrimental to positive social interaction.

[J-WO]

Originally Posted by skeptical

What other rational reason could there be for a young man to take up boxing?

The chance to legally beat the cack out of other men?

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by Parson

No, it isn't. I suppose I rise to defense of Thomas because it seems to teach so many good lessons in a comfortable and accessible way.

And there you have it. My thoughts exactly. My 17 year old son was and still is very fond of the Thomas series. He prefers the older shows, where Ringo played Mr. Conductor. Alec Baldwin just doesn't cut it for us. LOL!

Yes, Thomas is very popular stateside, and the fact that it's originally a British series is obvious. That adds to the appeal, imo. When my son was small, about the only place I could find toys of some of the more obscure characters was train hobby stores. Now they are everywhere. My grandson has Thomas toys, sneakers, and a jacket, to boot. My son would have killed for those as a small boy. They didn't make/sell them here back then.

Considering all forms of entertainment aimed at children these days, I find Thomas the Tank Engine to be much more wholesome. There's no sex or violence, though as my daughter pointed out, in the Enchanted Railway movie (I think that's the title, can't remember off the top of my head), Diesel 10 really tries to hurt others, which is out of keeping with the rest of the characters. She finds that disturbing and so do I.

The overall series, with all of it's flaws, is still better than most cartoons/shows/movies aimed at children in this day and age. I think it's important that parents/adults discuss ALL entertainment with their children, not just Thomas shows. I am reminded of the time I took my 21 year old nephew to the gun range and let him fire my handgun. He absolutely freaked out. He said it was nothing like TV and video games. Well, duh! I can't believe his parents didn't teach him that! What? That guns are not really used in real life the way they are on TV and in movies and video games? Give me a break! Children need to be taught the difference between the real world and what they see in the entertainment industry, bottom line.

I should also mention that I read the original Thomas stories by the Rev. Awdry to my son. He loved the book as much as he loved the show, though I struggled with the wording and accents trying to read it out loud.

[skeptical]

How many traditional fairy tales are now politically incorrect?
Let's not get so bloody precious about trivia, folks!

[Drachir]

I was going to respond to some of Teresa's comments, but I don't need to. Others have answered them for me. The topic has really expanded from my original post, which was primarily the idea that a good deal of what University researchers tend to study seems to be a waste of time and effort. A TV show created for a primarily male audience favours males - is that really a surprise? Perhaps someone should do a study of a similar show aimed at girls and see if there is any difference.

BTW in reference to my Wonder Woman example, the creator of the comic strip, William Moulton Marston, created her as a female role model as at that time there were no women superheroes. Considering the era he began the comic he was considerably ahead of his time.
The Wonder Woman Pages: Dr. William Moulton Marston

You might note that according to Wikipedia WW is now considered a feminist icon. Wonder Woman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps if someone wishes to discuss the WW aspect of this further someone could start another thread; as currently I am not allowed to do so in World Affairs.

[Werewoman]

Oops! My bad, Drachir! I did stray a bit off topic there, didn't I?

All in all, I do agree that university researchers could probably find better things to do than bash TtTE, but I don't know that researchers motivation for writing this paper, so I suppose I can give her the benefit of the doubt.

I have a cousin who's a university researcher, except that he researches sexual disfunctions. Should I ask him about this topic?

[Parson]

Originally Posted by Werewoman

I have a cousin who's a university researcher, except that he researches sexual disfunctions. Should I ask him about this topic?

Not unless you want to know the answer. My rule of thumb is always "Never ask a question you don't want to know the answer too." And someone who studies sexual dysfunction, might provide one of those.

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

When it comes down to it, I really have to agree with Drachir over this. Don't university professors have anything better to do? How's that cure for cancer coming along?

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Manarion

Don't university professors have anything better to do? How's that cure for cancer coming along?

Maybe they are leaving that to the people who have degrees in medicine and biochemistry? I mean, what are the rest of us doing to cure cancer or end world hunger?

Let's put this in perspective. In a world full of hunger, wretchedness, cruelty, bigotry, and sin, all this indignation is being wasted on a harmless academic who is just doing her job in the way she thinks best. And what is her unpardonable offense? She's struck a tender spot that some people have for a children's program about a train engine. Could we find something a bit less trivial to vent our frustrations against? We are thoughtful, intelligent, caring people here, and I happen to think that we could.

Meanwhile, what are the rest of us doing to earn our livings that makes the world such a better place that we can sit in judgement on how she earns hers? Me, I write fantasy novels. I like to think that they bring a little pleasure into people's lives, hopefully, sometimes, when somebody really needs a little escape, a little uplift, however mostly people will read them for entertainment -- but for curing deadly diseases, bringing about world peace ... not so much. I'm OK with that. I think I'm good at what I do, and that I would make a lousy medical researcher and would probably be pretty much useless doing something like building schools in the Peace Corps (I can't even hammer a nail straight). Nevertheless, I can see how somebody might think there is something else I could be doing that would be more worthwhile.

Maybe we could start a thread in which each of us lists what we did today to immeasurably improve the plight of our fellow men. I sort of think I won't be able to post in that thread very often myself -- or at all. But perhaps the rest of you can keep it going.

[Teresa Edgerton]

So I just had an interesting thought while I was taking my bath. I often have brilliant ideas when I'm bathing, though unfortunately none of them provide instant solutions to the problem of global warming (or recently, ideas on how to finish my book ... but I digress).

Suppose that the professor under discussion had made her study of Thomas the Tank Engine and come to a completely different conclusion? Suppose that she had written that Thomas provided many, many positive role models for young boys, and was therefore to be lauded and celebrated? Would the project seem like such a waste of time then? I find myself wondering what is actually fueling this negative reaction: the fact that she spent time studying gender roles in Thomas the Tank Engine, or the fact that she reached a conclusion that some find disagreeable?

Originally Posted by skeptical

How many traditional fairy tales are now politically incorrect?

I had a long answer to that, but then I thought to myself, "Hey, that's off topic." Someone should probably start another thread on that subject, but in the meantime let's keep this one on topic.

Let's not get so bloody precious about trivia, folks!

Let's not get over-heated about it, either.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Suppose that the professor under discussion had made her study of Thomas the Tank Engine and come to a completely different conclusion? Suppose that she had written that Thomas provided many, many positive role models for young boys, and was therefore to be lauded and celebrated? Would the project seem like such a waste of time then?

Yes, and possibly (if that's possible ) more so.

My "reasoning": Given that posters here - who, I will admit, do not constitute a statistically significant number of people, but I assume you're asking if the reaction here would be different - already mostly dismiss as irrelevant her current solution, they would most likely use that witty phrase, Duh, and maybe add - "All that money spent and for what? To tell us the bleedin' obvious!" (Okay, the North American posters may not use those exact words. ) There may not be same bite to the criticism: being told a work you love is pernicious is likely to engender a rather more spiky response than would praise.


I ought to add that I may - only may - have read one TTTE story (the tale involved a tank wagon (tank car), which was able to carry water to put out a fire (possibly? I read it a long time ago), and it may not have come from the Rev. Awdry's pen - so I, personally, cannot say whether the stories are sexist or even any good.

(If the stories are sexist, perhaps the poor Reverend was, subconsciously, reacting against (possible) bullying about (the sound of) his name; I'm thinking of A boy named Sue here. )

[Parson]

Teresa: I have to admit I probably would not have reacted so strongly to a more positive conclusion. I think you have a good point about what we are all doing. I like to believe (and people often tell me) that I provide inspiration for living and consolation in trouble, but is that enough? Sometimes I wonder, sometimes I'm okay with what I do.

Ursa: "A Boy Named Sue?!" I would have thought that a classic Johnny Cash song would have next to no play in Europe. I'm a CW fan from way, way, back. I liked the song when it was young and I might have qualified for being young myself. I've been thinking lately that with all of the androgynous names out there that the song would have no resonation with people of modernity.

[Wiglaf]

In shows geared toward boys, there are more male characters. In ones geared toward girls, there are more female characters. A study trying to show this is a waste. A study trying to see if the ratio matters would be much more productive.
Personally, I suspect that how the characters are shown would matter more than mere numbers. Otherwise, is Horseland sexist because all the human characters are female? The idea that every job, TV show, political body, and your personal friends has to be 51% female, 49% male, 40% white non-Hispanic, 35% Hispanic, 12% Asian, and 6% black because those are the percentages in the population is crazy. However, if on TV every man deserts his children, every woman is incapable of rational thought, every Asian a nerd, every white person a rich racist who can't dance, ect., then that could perpetuate stereo types.

[Sparrow]

I'm not quite sure why y'all are overly focused on the sexism when that seems to have been a secondary criticism.

In her estimation they contain a rigid class system and are full of conservative political ideology that stifles children’s self expression.

She said that there was a lack of women in the stories, out of the fifty characters only eight are female and these either secondary roles or they are bossy or know-it-alls.

She has also slammed the way the engines are punished for showing initiative or dissent, which would send out the wrong message to children who should aspire to improve their lot and break through the class system.

When I step back from Thomas the Train I see a program specifically geared at turning out good little children, ready to join the herd. That seems to be the main point of the article (be it a veiled one). Then again, most children's programs are also so intentioned, though these days not in a religious way.
I also think you've got to cut the good Reverend plenty of slack as he was a man of his times and the stories aren't overtly religious or even all that preachy. Heck, when our daughter was very young we didn't allow her to watch the Teletubbies, a show I found to be just plain disturbing.
I think Sesame Street is still the best bet if you're going to leave a young child in front of the television for a short while.

As for the study being conducted at all... all we've read is a very abbreviated version of it, so who can tell if it's worthwhile?