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Old 9th November 2009, 06:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What is Marwin's purpose?

I came across something in my reread of AGOT. It is in one of Dany's last chapters, the one when Khal Drogo is injured and she meets Miri Maz Dhur.

She is told by Miri Maz Dhur that she has some healing powers and learned it in Asshai. There she met a maester from Westeros named Marwin who taught her some things of his lore. Jorah confims to Dany that this Marwin would have been taught in Oldtown and indeed is a maester with knowledge of how to heal wounds and sickness.

Fastforward to AFFC and we finally meet this Marwin in the Citadel in Oldtown through Sam. He is with Pate and has light an obsidian candle. This Marwin appears as a renegade type in the Citadel with interests that lie somewhat hidden. He is seen as a link to Dany.

What do we really know of Marwin and the bigger question is what is his purpose? Was the fact that Miri Maz Dhur met him in Asshai sometime before she met Dany purely coincidental? GRRM could have used any name or no name at all and just said that she met a maester. But, the fact that he took time to name him and then introduced him later must mean something.

Is he linked to the Faceless Men as well with the presence of Pate (Jaqen)? This just feeds my speculation that there are greater hidden forces at work in ASOIF.
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Old 9th November 2009, 10:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Isn't he the ruling Lord of Oldtown as well?
As to his purpose, its too early to tell.
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Old 10th November 2009, 01:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

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Isn't he the ruling Lord of Oldtown as well?
That would be a Hightower, wouldn't it?
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Old 10th November 2009, 03:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

My favorite crack pot theory at the moment is the lord of old town, leyton hightower, who nobody's seen in like 20 years(supposedly he's been holed up
studying dark magic or something) is actually marwyn...

There's not really any evidence either way but I find the idea quite intriguing...
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Old 10th November 2009, 02:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Well, I hadn't considered that possibility. Would explain why nobody has seen him in so long if he was off to Asshai and Yi Ti and other strange lands to learn magics. Then that would a conspiracy of some sorts in the Citadel to hide him while he did this.

But I got another feeling from his clandestine-like activities when we finally meet him in AFFC.

And, thanks Illifer for correcting the spelling: It is Marwyn.
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Old 10th November 2009, 03:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

I'm guessing he turned up some profecies in the old texts and is mobilizing to get in the thick of it. I'm guessing the red comet and the talk of dragons has caused him to begin positioning himself to acomplish whatever his goals may be. Who's side he is on remains to be seen. He's obviously not of the other maesters belief that magic should be squashed and replaced with cold science. His motives shoul become apparent soon. Well hopefully. I just realized that I've fatherd 2 children, been married, divorced and remarried all during the wait for book 5. Hurry up martin. Idle hands.....
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Old 10th November 2009, 04:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

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Originally Posted by IlliferThePenniless View Post
My favorite crack pot theory at the moment is the lord of old town, leyton hightower, who nobody's seen in like 20 years(supposedly he's been holed up
studying dark magic or something) is actually marwyn...

There's not really any evidence either way but I find the idea quite intriguing...
it is a crackpot theory? When i read it, i immediately figured Marwyn was in fact the lord Hightower with the Mad Maid (his daughter) and all that.

Kinda funny, that upon reading the books i took that crackpot theory as canon, and only now realize people are crackpotting about it ~~
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Old 10th November 2009, 10:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Crackpot = Marwyn is actually Gerion Lannister, missing these last fifteen years.
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Old 10th November 2009, 11:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

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Crackpot = Marwyn is actually Gerion Lannister, missing these last fifteen years.
Ahh...what would a crackpot theory thread be without Boaz?

I didn't pay nearly enough attention to the Oldtown stuff...yet another thing i must take particular care with during my re-read. But this theory is quite intruiging...I can see no reason for Mirri Maz Dur to mention Marwyn by name unless there's some vital things surrounding him. Having the background knowledge that he spent some time in Asshai (does he come out and say that at some point?) is interesting too. Perhaps he's linked to Quaithe in some manner?
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Crackpot may be over stating it a bit, but Marwyn=Leyton Hightower is definitely not cannon either. I think it's the kind of idea that comes from spending way too much time picking over this stuff with a fine toothed comb. When we hear about the lord of a prominent family who we hasn't been seen in twenty years and all of our minds immediately begin whirring, trying to figure out who he's hiding as...

Is there any other evidence for this, aside from Marwyn being in old town?
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Old 11th November 2009, 02:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Just because Leyton hasn't been out much doesn't mean that people haven't met him. I think Jorah mentions meeting him once (his ex-wife, the one who ran off to be a merchant's wife in the Free Cities, is Leyton's youngest daughter IIRC). If Mace summoned him to Highgarden, he'd have to go and so on. I never got the impression he was locked away from the world and refused to let anyone in. It's just that most people can't be bothered to climb the several thousand steps to the stop of the High Tower to chill out with him
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Old 11th November 2009, 06:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

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I can see no reason for Mirri Maz Dur to mention Marwyn by name unless there's some vital things surrounding him.
Except that GRRM writes like a boxer... He shows you his left hand often, so often that you tend to forget the right cross that knocks you out. My problem is that I never know which hand GRRM is showing me, the right or the left... all I know is that I tend to get hit by something I never saw coming.
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Old 12th November 2009, 07:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

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Except that GRRM writes like a boxer... He shows you his left hand often, so often that you tend to forget the right cross that knocks you out. My problem is that I never know which hand GRRM is showing me, the right or the left... all I know is that I tend to get hit by something I never saw coming.
Too true. For all we know GRRM might be showing us a foot...

Still, what would this forum be if we weren't desperately grasping at every potential straw GRRM threw out there?
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

BUt, I cannot believe that it could be pure coincidence that Mirri Maz Dhur named Marwyn as the maester she knew in Asshai. Or that GRRM is just leading us on a false trail. With Sam in the picture now in Oldtown, the linkages are starting to be made.

But, consider this: Mirri Maz Dhur recognized Dany even before she was told who she was by her bloodriders and her betrayal of Dany was not revenge purely because of Khal Drogo's murder, raping and pillaging of the Lamb People. Marwyn sent her to kill Dany and with Sam on a mission from Aemon to seek out Dany, Marwyn will see this as another opportunity to kill Dany, for whatever his motives are.

An alternative is that Aemon sent Sam to Oldtown, knowing that Marwyn would take him under his wing, so to say, as Aemon and Marwyn would like nothing more than to see a Targaryen returned to the throne and dragons returned to Westeros. TPTWP.

Crackpot theory or distinct possibility?
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Old 2nd June 2011, 03:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: What is Marwin's purpose?

Resucitating this thread in light of my AFFC re-read.

From the Prologue in AFFC as told by Pate:

...but he could not deny that Marwyn looked more a mastiff than a maester. As if he wants to bite you. The Mage was not like other maesters. People said that he kept company with whores and hedge wizards, talked with hairy Ibbenese and pitch-black Summer Islanders in their own tongues, and sacrificed to queer gods at the little sailors' temples down by the wharves. Men spoke of seeing him down in the undercity, in rat pits and black brothels, consorting with mummers, singers, sellswords, even beggars. Some even whispered that once he had killed a man with his fists.
When Marwyn had returned to Oldtown, after spending eight years in the east mapping distant lands, searching for lost books, and studying with warlocks and shadowbinders, Vinegar Vaellyn had dubbed him "Marwyn the Mage". The name was soon all over Oldtown, to Vaellyn's vast annoyance. "Leave spells and prayers to priests and septons and bend your wits to learning truths a man can trust in," Archmaester Ryam had once counseled Pate, but Ryam's ring and rod and mask were yellow gold, and his maester's chain had no link of Valyrian steel.

It goes on to describe the candle that does not flicker or cast light burning in Marwyn's chambers.


From Cersei's second chapter in AFFC when we find out more about Qyburn. He had found the gold coin dating back to Garth the 12th of House Gardener in the disapperead Goalers (Rugen) chamber. Rugen was the one charged to guard Tyrion. She then suspects Tyrell involvement in Tywin's murder and says:

..."You will not speak of this with anyone," she commanded.
"Your Grace may trust in my discretion. Any man who rides with a sellsword company learns to hold his tongue, else he does not keep it long."

This conversation is then about Gregor and Qyburn is telling Cersei that the manticore venom had been thickened somehow to prolong death and agony by some black sorcery.

"Tend to him?" She laughed. "Let Ser Ilyn tend to him."
"If that is Your Grace's wish," Qyburn said, "but this poison...it would be useful to know more about it, would it not? Send a knight to slay a knight and an archer to kill an archer, the smallfolk often say. To combat the black arts..." He did not finish the thought, but only smiled at her.
He is not Pycelle, that much is plain. The queen weighed him, wondering. "Why did the Citadel take you chain?"
"The archmaesters are all craven at heart. The grey sheep, Marwyn calls them. I was as skilled a healer as Ebrose, but aspired to surpass him. For hundreds of years the men of the Citadel have opened the bodies of the dead, to study the nature of life. I wished to understand the nature of death, so I opened the bodies of the living. For that crime the grey sheep shamed me and forced me into exile..but I understand the nature of life and death better than any man in Oldtown."

So, are Marwyn and Qyburn in cahoots together? They obviously know each other. Are they working for some secret, hidden force trying to influence things for the worse? Is Varys linked to them?

Food for thought, perhaps.
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