THE GATHERING STORM: Initial Thoughts (caution!!! May be SPOILERS!)

[Talysia]

Originally Posted by hedgeknight

Howdy folks - been away from these boards for several months. Been away from Jordan's series for much, much longer. Gave it up after book 7.
But now that Sanderson has seemingly resurrected this series (R.I.P. Mr. Jordan), I would like to read the final three books.
However, how much have I missed in books 8-11? How can I make this up without wasting hours of my life reading through it all? Are there cliff notes? LOL!

Welcome back to you, and to Althain's Warden, too!

I don't know whether there are any shorter versions or entire book summaries, but there are chapter summaries at the encyclopedia WoT (http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/). Hope that helps.

[hedgeknight]

That's exactly what I wanted! Thanks Talysia!

[Talysia]

Happy to help. I used the same site myself to catch up with the storylines before tGS came out.

[bunnypeaches]

Overall I was really pleased with it. I thought Mat's POV was written very differently from the previous ones, he seemed almost a parody of himself. Like he was trying to be too funny, when Mat doesn't have to try, he just IS funny. That disappointed me a little bit, because if any character had to be ruined, I didn't want it to be Mat. (Because I love him). But hopefully that was just a blip and it'll sort itself out in the next installment. Also I would have liked to see some progress toward rescuing Moiraine, because I'm sure that's going to be amazing. But hopefully he's just saving that for the next book and we'll have a very Mat-orientated book 13!
I loved Verin's revelations about the Black Ajah and generally quite pleased with how the White Tower situation was resolved. Egwene really impressed me in this book too, and there was finally some action in that bit of the story, not just sitting about with endless discussions and Aes Sedai politics. Still haven't been able to figure out who/where Mesaana is after all that happened, although maybe I'm just slow. Very pleased about Elaida being made damane as well, if anyone deserved it, she did! Oh, and I thought Silviana for Egwene's Keeper was a nice touch, and made perfect sense to me, as she was one of Egwene's first converts.
I actually liked Rand's descent into madness, how at the end it wasn't even Lews Therin in his head, he literally was just talking to himself. And the end was totally woth it, he needed to hit rock bottom to be able to sort himself out again I think.
Would have liked a chapter at the end, telling how Tuon (sorry, Fortuona) took the semi-defeat at the White Tower. And I'm so curious generally as to how the Seanchan invasion is going to pan out. Clearly they're not all going to pack up and leave again, so how are they going to work out having damane and Aes Sedai running about? Because I can't see the Seanchan letting all their damane run free, and it's even less likely that all the Aes Sedai will end up collared, or what would be the point in most of the female characters?
Oh, and all the way through I've hated Cadsuane, so I was kind of glad to see her finally put in her place (if I were Rand I'd have probably stilled her the first time she tried to tell me about manners, when she's one of the rudest characters in the whole book!) but I also ended up feeling a bit sorry for her.
I also hoped to hear more from Perrin and Mat, and especially Lan. I want to know how his march through the Borderlands was going. Especially after reading New Spring a while back, I have a bit of a soft spot for Lan. I don't normally like prequels but I thought that gave some good background info.
I'm sure I'll think of more to say later, but this has been quite a rambling post anyway so I'll leave it for now. Hope it hasn't been too jumbled together, but I just kept thinking of more and more things to say!

[bunnypeaches]

P.S overally really happy with Sanderson's effort, I had a horrible feeling he'd ruin it for me, but he's done a brilliant job!

[Rosemary]

I was re-reading the previous book but found that I wasn't enjoying it nearly as much as the first time round. So this time, I shan't be buying the TPB but will wait another six months before the paperback comes out.

I think I've moved on in my reading and this series is starting to seem a little tame. Hopefully it won't be, as I would like the final parts to be 'the big battle'

[Perpetual Man]

Well it's taken me a little while, but I finshed tGS last night. Life might have slowed my reading time down, but I really enjoyed the book. Although I enjoyed individual chapters in the previous few books Spoiler for those who have not read it: Rand cleaning saidar being a magnificent one; I had felt that Knife of Dreams was a step in the right direction.

Sanderson though, seems to have done a wonderful job over all and I appreciate the fact that he was willing to pick up the reins of such a complex story.

Like so many others I felt the WoT as a whole dragged in the middle stages, was Jordan pushed following the success of the series to write more and stretch what he had? Or did he fall into a writers trap once described by Terry Pratchett, where you create characters with the sole intent of killing them, but in order to make the reader feel sympathy you invest time and effort to make them likable, and then stretch things out because you like them so much you want to put the deaths off as long as you can?

And as to unfinished storylines? I read an interview with Jordan once wheere he talked about that, and he said he fully intended for there to be storylines left unfinished or dangling, because in real life nothing is ever wrapped up into a nice tidy ball!!!

Whether Sanderson does the same remains to be seen...

[Clansman]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Man

And as to unfinished storylines? I read an interview with Jordan once wheere he talked about that, and he said he fully intended for there to be storylines left unfinished or dangling, because in real life nothing is ever wrapped up into a nice tidy ball!!!

Whether Sanderson does the same remains to be seen...

Ball, schmall. This is fantasy, not the real world. Do not waste my time with superfluous story lines. If ya write 'em, resolve 'em.

In the words of the almost-immortal Stan Lee: 'nuff said.

[Perpetual Man]

Originally Posted by Clansman

Ball, schmall. This is fantasy, not the real world. Do not waste my time with superfluous story lines. If ya write 'em, resolve 'em.

In the words of the almost-immortal Stan Lee: 'nuff said.

Of course, there is that as well

[Lofwyr]

Warning...this post will be fairly spoilerific.

I had bought this sucker a month or two ago, whilst finishing up some other books. Got time to read it this holiday and cranked through it in 4 days! Damn fine read. I will agree with what has been said about Mat. The change in style there is most noticeable and makes me sad. He went from the frenetic victim (in his own mind) to something more akin to eccentric. I enjoy eccentric characters and get a good laugh, but hopefully Sanderson will tone it down somewhat in the next book.

I REALLY liked how the plot with Rand went. It was very real to me...as he's in a position literally no one can understand. Jordan had that anger in him building over the last 7 books or whatever but never really bothered to get into it. With a few simple sentences Sanderson gives us the info we need to emphatize a bit better. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if destiny spit me out with the sole intention of killing me to save everyone else...and everyone else treats me like crap and tries endless manipulation. The ending moment of the book was well deserved. Hopefully Rand can crack some heads and get some of this same understanding out of his own people. I thought the ties and overflow with Moridin was very interesting as well. I wonder how Rand using the True Power will affect the next 2 books and that odd Moridin/Rand connection too.

SO glad that whole white tower fiasco is finally done with. And in spectacular fashion as well. The black ajah purge was a fantastically pleasant surprise too.

Wow...the end of 2010 is looking to be primed for fantastic reading. Book 13 here and (fingers very much crossed) ADWD!

[Clansman]

ADWD? Dream on!

[ThunderandLightning]

Things that The Gathering Storm wrapped up:

1.) White Tower healed.

2.) The long since foreshadowed Seanchan attack on the White Tower finally happens.

3.) Semirhage captures Rand, and gets dead. Graendal also bites the dust. This is a HUGE improvement, as books 8-11 made virtually no progress whatsoever towards eliminating the Forsaken -- only O'Sangar dies in the space of all 4 books, and he's just a recycled already killed once Forsaken anyways.

4.) The event foreshadowed WAAAY back in EOTW finally happens: Two people become one person in Rand Al'Thor. I think the persnal crisis that leads up to it partly ruins Rand as a character -- for a little while anyways, but clearly something big needed to happen to merge Lews Therin and Rand Al'Thor together without it spelling disaster -- LT going berserk and killing Asha'man and Aes Sedai and the like. So the "nucking futs" Rand crisis may have been a little over the top, but it seems likely that is how RJ was going to tell the story anyways (spread out over eight 1000 page novels of course.) The door is now opened for Sanderson -- now he can write a likable and heroic Rand rather than the psycho-crazy "frightens small children at a glance" Rand that he'd devolved into. If the personal crisis was the price for having an honest to goodness hero by the end, it is more than worth it.

5.) The mystery of how the Choeden Kal would fit into the Last Battle is neatly answered: They don't.

6.) The Forsaken and Black Ajah are apparently officially OUT of the White Tower. This makes at least one point tidy and ready for the Last Battle, and leaves a lot less subplots and unanswered questions lurking around.

7.) Elaida gets what's coming to her. I swear that Jordan had built up the most ridiculous laundry list of reasons to hate the woman. I don't know if her fate will be quite bad enough, but I guess it works. I'm not 100% sure that Padin Fain's tainting of her necessarily needs to be pursued -- and at this point, who the hell cares?? We just spent NINE BOOKS sorting out the White tower and getting rid of her, so good riddance!!

8.) FINALLY there is progress towards negotiating an alliance between Rand's forces and the Seanchan. I think that the negotiations were supposed to fail though -- Matt is supposed to be the key ingredient there, and he's got the Tower of Ghenjei to deal with first.

9.) The insane notion that Rand Al'Thor just never gets to see, hear, talk to or interact with his adoptive father Tam Al'Thor is finally brought to an end. That was SOOO satisfying!!

11.) The Prophet is dealt with at last. He didn't deserve a dramatic and complicated end. Look at how Jordan offed Pedron Niall afterall! This is just another HUGELY annoying pest that is made dead in unspectacular fashion -- exactly as he deserved.

Things Sanderson does better:

1.) When written by Sanderson, the WOT women aren't all carbon copies of the same psychotic bitch -- as has been said, they sniff CONSTANTLY, they smooth their skirts CONSTANTLY, they glare CONSTANTLY, they fold their arms under their breasts CONSTANTLY. Time and time and time again, they refuse to let men help them in dangerous circumstances, something terrible happens, they regret it, yet they never learn their lesson: Wash, rinse repeat. There were always a good variety of male personalities, but only ONE carbon copy insanely bitchy female personality in the series. Sanderson actually wrote women with different personalities -- which may not have kept them 100% true to character for the series, but I was long ago sick to death of half-hating the vast majority of women characters in the series. I completely forgot to dislike or be annoyed with all the women personalities in TGS, and that was SOOOO refreshing.

2.) Sanderson moves the story along. Jordan would have spent six 1000 page novels covering the same ground that The Gathering Storm just covered. He got the series back on track. Jordan had gotten lost and was busily trying to tell the story of every living person in the WOT world.

3.) Sanderson does not seem likely to trap characters in virtually impossible and horrible circumstances for 2 or 3 books straight. He seems far less inclined towards non-stop torturing the main characters of the series.

4.) While Jordan was constantly adding more threads to the story, Sanderson rather brilliantly ties them up and gets the story moving again.

The one thing that he doesn't do as well is writing Matt. It's not the end of the world, even though he was always one of my favorite characters. But truth be told, it's not all that bad of a departure either -- with two books in which to get it right. I think the cursed village was unnecessary addition to the story line and did nothing to move things along. It was probably handed to Sanderson along with all the other notes by Robert Jordan, so it's not really his fault I guess.

I think that the insane number of stories that Jordan wanted to tell combined with Sanderson's ability to wrap things up, be concise and get on with telling the story is the perfect combination, and exactly what the series needed.

[Clansman]

T&L, this may be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...

Your views are clearly and succinctly stated, with no room for ambiguity, to be sure! I would take issue that all the women characters were the same psychotic bitch (a bit strong in some cases, perhaps), but they were more and less intense varieties of the same spiteful woman, Elaida being the worst, and Min being the best. Sanderson was masterful in taking these variations and making them into distinct personalities (and then getting rid of a few of them). Elaida had become quite the straw woman. There was not one redeeming feature in her, and one wondered why she had any supporters at all, and we all knew books and books ago that it was a matter of time before she was pulled down.

TL, take a moment and go introduce yourself at the Introductions - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums thread.

[Talysia]

Originally Posted by ThunderandLightning

Things that The Gathering Storm wrapped up:

6.) The Forsaken and Black Ajah are apparently officially OUT of the White Tower. This makes at least one point tidy and ready for the Last Battle, and leaves a lot less subplots and unanswered questions lurking around.

Reading this reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while: Is Mesaana still hiding in the White Tower, after the end of tGS? I really do need to read the book again...

Otherwise, nice summary, Thunder - it's good to see a bit of activity in the Jordan boards for a change.

[Perpetual Man]

Although I have to agree with most of what Thunderandlightning said - and yes Robert Jordan was lost wandering the world of the Wheel of Time, probably since about book 5, I'd still like to say that he was to determined to finish the Wheel of Time, and had promised that there was only going to be one more book: so some of the threads being wrapped up could have been his doing, not Sandersons. (Sanderson is an absolutely fantastic writer, don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the reason TGS is the best book in ages is down to him) The template for the end was laid out very strongly by Jordan, in last few weeks before his untimely death.

Would he have been able to finish the series in one problem as he promised? Well in the same posting he did say it may well be a 10,000 page volume...