Molly

[rune]

What is true happiness? That question probably eludes all of us. To be content, I feel, is the best any of us can really hope for

So in that matter Fitz got what he wanted and what was best for him.

[Amber]

Originally Posted by rune

What is true happiness? That question probably eludes all of us. To be content, I feel, is the best any of us can really hope for

So in that matter Fitz got what he wanted and what was best for him.

But was he content? In a bit I'll root up the quotes I got from Fool's Fate, and do a post on them (or edit this one) which show quite plainly how apart they are, and the deeper things behind that facade of love.

I challenge someone in the meantime to find some to refute it

[Alexa]

I believe he was. I don't doubt his words in the end of the book :

My days with the Fool ended like a half-played game of Stones, the outcome poised and uncertain, possibilities hovering. Sometimes it seemed to me a cruelty that so much was unresolved between us; at other times, a blessing that a hope of reunion lingered. It is like the anticipation that a clever minstrel evokes when he pauses, letting silence pool before sweeping into the final refrain of his song. Sometimes a gap can seem like a promise yet to be fulfilled. I miss him often, but in the same way that I miss Nighteyes. I know that such a one will not come again. I count myself fortunate for what I had of them. I do not think I will ever Wit-bond again, or know such a deep friendship as I had with the Fool. As Burrich once observed to

[Alexa]

Oops, it went faster than I was expecting. Sorry, here you have the end of my quote :

(...) Patience, one horse cannot wear two saddles. I have Molly and she is enough for me, and more.

I am content.

For me this is enough.

[Rahl Windsong]

The thing is though, no matter what woman came into Fitz's life he always longed for Molly. If I remember right he started to see Molly right about the same time he bonded with Nighteyes. That is why my theory that Molly is the right woman for Fitz rings true. They both came into his life at almost the same time and even Nighteyes regarded Molly as pack. I don't have the books here they are in my storage locker but I am certain Nighteyes regarded Molly as pack.

The only questions I have are...

Are Kettricken and Duitiful also pack? I think they are and any offspring that comes from Duitiful is also pack. Also is Chade pack? That I can't answer. And...Did Thick become pack? The Fool never was pack he was too alien to be so. Fitz did love him but the Fool was never pack.

From his bonding to Nighteyes, Molly became the only woman for Fitz. I truely do believe that, and Molly was the only reason Fitz was able to be content after loosing Nigheyes.

Of course this is only my oppinion

Rahl

[Darken Rahl]

[quote=Rahl The only questions I have are...

Are Kettricken and Duitiful also pack? I think they are and any offspring that comes from Duitiful is also pack. Also is Chade pack? That I can't answer. And...Did Thick become pack? The Fool never was pack he was too alien to be so. Fitz did love him but the Fool was never pack.
Rahl[/QUOTE]

I think Kettricken is Pack, but I wouldn't consider Dutiful to be so. For no logical reason except that Kettricken and Nighteyes hunted together on the Skill Road. I disagree with excluding the Fool, remembering the connection involving the Fool when Fitz heals Nighteyes. I for some reason think of Nighteyes being the deciding factor in defining the pack, I can't force myself to judge from Fitz's POV only. In that respect, I would only consider those that had developed a relationship with Nighteyes as well as Fitz. Still, that would include Dutiful as being Kettricken's offspring, wouldn't it? I hate it when my logic confuses me. Ok, so Dutiful and his offspring too.

[Rahl Windsong]

Well the only reason I had included Duitiful was the fact that he was actually offspring from Fitz when Verity took his body so that there would be someone after him to become king. I would concede that the Fool is pack except for the fact that in the end the Fool had to leave Fitz, was he then driven from the pack by means beyond his or Fitz's control? I suppose we could assume that. No wolf would leave his or her pack by choice that is the only reason I assumed the Fool never really was pack. How could any of the pack be "scentless"?

Rahl

PS: I suppose I have dragged this topic off its original course with my talk of pack but I really do feel that is the reason Molly is the only woman for Fitz.

[rune]

I hadn't looked into the theme of who was Pack and who wasn't. Amazing were these discussion lead


I think Fool was part of the Pack with Fitz and Nighteyes because Fool helped pull Fitz back when he healed Nighteyes. I also remember many references from Nighteyes about Fool, and wonder if Nighteyes also saw him as Pack

[Rahl Windsong]

The only way I will concede the point that the Fool is pack is if Robin writes another book about the Farseer line and the Fool returns to the pack. The fact that he had to leave makes me see him as not being pack. This means his destiny was much different, in fact so different he could not remain with the pack and therefore he can not be pack or his destiny would have been to remain with the rest of them. I think even the Fool would agree with me...again my oppinion.

Rahl

[rune]

Originally Posted by Rahl Windsong

The only way I will concede the point that the Fool is pack is if Robin writes another book about the Farseer line and the Fool returns to the pack. The fact that he had to leave makes me see him as not being pack. This means his destiny was much different, in fact so different he could not remain with the pack and therefore he can not be pack or his destiny would have been to remain with the rest of them. I think even the Fool would agree with me...again my oppinion.

Rahl

Ah, I love this So good to get into a discussion about the nitty gritty of a book. Not to mention how interesting it is to see how others have perceived the same works and feel differently about it

I feel the Pack is not the same as the group that Fitz works with when developing the Prince's gifts. That to me is a different thing.
The Pack, for me, is more to do with the bond between Fitz and Nighteyes and only the Fool ever touched that bond when he pulled Fitz back when he healed Nighteyes

[Rahl Windsong]

Yes but it was Nighteyes who told Fitz that Burrich was "Heart of the Pack". So according to Nigheyes if Burrich was the heart of the pack this would make any offspring, and anyone he mated with, also pack. Plus any offspring Fitz had would automatically be pack according to the rules of the pack. Duitiful is really offspring from Fitz when Verity took his body to get Kettricken pregnant so he could give himself to the stone dragon. Nettle was Fitz's child from Molly so both of them are pack, and I am still holding out that the Fool is not pack. In essence Fitz did mate with Kettricken do she was pack.

To me the Fool was more then that, he was the White Prophet and Fitz was his Catalyst, the changer. It was Fitz, and the fact that he was the changer, that prevented the Fool from being pack because if he was pack I don't think he could have been the White Prophet that changed the destiny of the Six Duchies. In my mind this was proven when, at the end, the Fool had to leave Fitz because he could no longer see what changes he would make and therefore he had fulfilled all his prophecies with Fitz and Fitz was no longer his Catalyst. Nighteyes recognized the siginficance of the Fool and only the Fool's love for Fitz and his wolf allowed him to help heal Nighteyes, not because he was pack.

Ok well I used the word "was" a few too many times but my point was ....my own! And yes I do love this discussion!

So there you have it!

Rahl

PS: The real question here though is...If Fitz told Molly that Duitful is his offspring, would she leave him for bedding Kettricken? Oh my god! thats a good one!

[Darken Rahl]

Originally Posted by Rahl Windsong

Yes but it was Nighteyes who told Fitz that Burrich was "Heart of the Pack".

Whoa! Time out! IIRC Nighteyes tells Fitz that that is what the hounds in the kennels / stables name Burrich. Heart of the Pack is a name, not his position. However, I included Burrich for his relationships with the others of the pack. He is not the leader, rather more of the Old Wolf Grandfather. Kin, not King if you will.

[rune]

PS: The real question here though is...If Fitz told Molly that Duitful is his offspring, would she leave him for bedding Kettricken? Oh my god! thats a good one
Firstly, good to see readers so enthusiastic about the books they read
I can see your point of view about the relationship between Fitz and the Fool. Good point.


However, here's the next debate. Would Molly have dumped Fitz if he'd known he was used to get Kettrichen with child?
I think she would have left him because she wouldnt understand now Fitz was used.

[AryaUnderfoot]

I'll have to agree that Molly just didn't quite do it for me. She was just a little too bitter, and in the beginning when she and Fitz were together, I didn't like it at all. It didn't feel right. But that was because it wasn't right, back then. Fitz had his life ahead of him, and you could tell from the start that he was meant for other things than settling down with the woman he loved. His life and his loyalties went in too many directions.

However, at the end, it did make me happy to see him be able to kick his boots off and have a life that was completely his own. There was so much loneliness, pain and tragedy in his life that it would have been heartbreaking to end the his story with nothing resolved. Sure, he'll have a few nightmares from time to time, and he'll miss the Fool and Nighteyes- who wouldn't? Now, though, he can share his life with someone without always feeling on edge, without the constant worry of losing them, and without any criticism or hatred from people who just don't understand. It's the best thing that could have happened to him, in the end, to be "put out to pasture," as they say.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by rune

PS: The real question here though is...If Fitz told Molly that Duitful is his offspring, would she leave him for bedding Kettricken? Oh my god! thats a good one
Firstly, good to see readers so enthusiastic about the books they read
I can see your point of view about the relationship between Fitz and the Fool. Good point.


However, here's the next debate. Would Molly have dumped Fitz if he'd known he was used to get Kettrichen with child?
I think she would have left him because she wouldnt understand now Fitz was used.

At this point, I don't think that Molly would have any room to judge Fitz- she ran off with his father-figure, after all, and they had many kids of their own. Fitz's involvement with Kettricken was for the entire country, while Molly's involvement with Burrich was for much more selfish reasons.