Non-western fantasy worlds

[Dimentio]

I think it is strange that there are so few non-western themed fantasy worlds. In most fantasy worlds, the protagonist is froma culture with western aesthetics. If fantasy is really about escapism, then why just create another version of medieval merry England?

[Rodders]

Maybe it's that Frontier feel that people a going for. There nothing that suggests frontier in a medieval society.

[Dimentio]

Originally Posted by Rodders

Maybe it's that Frontier feel that people a going for. There nothing that suggests frontier in a medieval society.

No, I have also noticed that a lot of socities in fantasy seem to be rather medieval versions of the wild west than actual attempts to describe how people thought and saw the world during the medieval time.

One thing which bothers me though is the "Dark Lord" trap, that even the people(s) ruled over by the Dark Lord are evil. That is of course a Tolkienesque interpretation, but Tolkien had several valid excuses, and I think too many authors have created copy-catted worlds from Tolkien without really creating anything new and original, rather wathering down Tolkien's mythos into commercialism.

[j. d. worthington]

There are plenty of worlds which don't take quite that view, though one has to search some of them out. And I believe there are various fantasy worlds which are non-western European (at least ostensibly, though not always philosophically), as well; some of these date back to earlier fantasy works (Voltaire, even, for instance, with "Zadig the Babylonian"), but I've no doubt there are others with more recent fantasy as well. Unfortunately, that isn't an area where I am that knowledgeable, so I will have leave suggestions on that to others who are....

[Ursa major]

Vathek by William Thomas Beckford (also known as Vathek, an Arabian Tale or The History of the Caliph Vathek) would fit JD's bill, in that it is non-western fantasy and dates back a good few years: it was written in 1782 (in French, but was later translated into English).

[Dimentio]

Originally Posted by Ursa major

Vathek by William Thomas Beckford (also known as Vathek, an Arabian Tale or The History of the Caliph Vathek) would fit JD's bill, in that it is non-western fantasy and dates back a good few years: it was written in 1782 (in French, but was later translated into English).

In the 18th century, such litterature was popular. They used non-European protagonists, both in order to get a little more liberty with the characters and to use prejudices and dreams about exotic lands to entice the reader.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Dimentio

In the 18th century, such litterature was popular. They used non-European protagonists, both in order to get a little more liberty with the characters and to use prejudices and dreams about exotic lands to entice the reader.

It also had a great deal to do with Galland's translation into French of the Arabian Nights tales, which rather took Europe by storm.

But this sort of thing lasted well beyond the time of Vathek (important -- and enjoyable, not to mention scatalogical -- as it is), with such pieces as F. Marion Crawford's Khaled, or George Meredith's The Shaving of Shagpat. You also have the various Kai Lung novels of Ernest Bramah, or Barry Hughart's Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox -- the latter an excellent example of what you were asking for....

[pyan]

Try the Empire series by Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts, detailing a clash between a traditional proto-western fantasy world, and a Japanese-inspired Oriental one...

[Dave]

Out of interest, are there any English written translations of Chinese tales that anyone would recommend? I used to watch the TV adaptations "The Water Margin" and "Monkey" when I was younger and they certainly fit what Dementio was asking for. I believe those TV productions were Japanese so I'm not sure how much they were altered from the original sources.

[Urien]

It's logical that one's perception and indeed truth of localised experience is of more Western medieval styled worlds than say Indian or Chinese. If you're an English speaker and/or living in a Western nation it's natural one should read predominantly Western (or own language writers); these writers draw on the easily available historical experience, which is, the local experience.

What I don't know is the whether there is a fantasy market in India/Japan/China written by local authors for local people. If there is I'll bet it's predominantly local culture, history and society focused.

Meanwhile I must pop off to the local shop for some precious things.

[Dimentio]

Originally Posted by Urien

It's logical that one's perception and indeed truth of localised experience is of more Western medieval styled worlds than say Indian or Chinese. If you're an English speaker and/or living in a Western nation it's natural one should read predominantly Western (or own language writers); these writers draw on the easily available historical experience, which is, the local experience.

What I don't know is the whether there is a fantasy market in India/Japan/China written by local authors for local people. If there is I'll bet it's predominantly local culture, history and society focused.

Meanwhile I must pop off to the local shop for some precious things.

It seems like at least Japanese fantasy is drawing quite much from western civilisation. I think it all boils down to the fact that the novel is mostly a western cultural artifact. And in China and Eastern Asia, there is'nt the same interest in the history of other cultures in general.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Dimentio

It seems like at least Japanese fantasy is drawing quite much from western civilisation. I think it all boils down to the fact that the novel is mostly a western cultural artifact. And in China and Eastern Asia, there is'nt the same interest in the history of other cultures in general.

More specifically, if one is looking at the more restricted use of the term "fantasy" that most use (what many, including myself, have called the "post-Tolkien" fantasy), then this sort of tale is very much an outgrowth of older western forms as well, from the origins in the eddas and sagas to the märchen, the historical romance à la Walter Scott, down through elements of the Gothic tale (which, as has been cogently argued many times, was a precursor to both modern fantasy and science fiction).

But parallel to that (if much less frequent) there has always been at least a small thread of other, non-western fantasy worlds included in that development all the same....

[Connavar]

This so called problem is easily corrected, reading fantasy from other cultures. Japanese,Chinese,other Asian fantasy works based on their cultures.

Liarn Hearn the Australian author have written good YA fantasy set in alternate history Japan. Raymond Feist was mentioned.

Liz Williams Snake Agent series which is Urban Fantasy/Science fiction/mystery is set in Singapore the first book. Chinese culture based world that series..

Which is why i enjoy them. The few quality western authors that care about making fantasy based on other cultures is very interested read.

[WizardofOwls]

Personally, I dislike fantasy which is not western influenced. I find middle eastern and far eastern themed books diffiult to read and based on concepts which are alien to me. I dont understand, and frankly I dont want to understand them. That may sound a little close minded and I suppose it is, but everyone has their own likes and dislikes and these are mine.

[Dimentio]

Originally Posted by WizardofOwls

Personally, I dislike fantasy which is not western influenced. I find middle eastern and far eastern themed books diffiult to read and based on concepts which are alien to me. I dont understand, and frankly I dont want to understand them. That may sound a little close minded and I suppose it is, but everyone has their own likes and dislikes and these are mine.

Things is that even the Western European medieval or dark age culture would have been alien to you. At least until the late 18th century, people imagined the world as cyclical and subjected to the seasons.

When authors are installing anachronistic concepts like for example "girlfriend" into medieval fantasy worlds, its a clear signs that something is wrong. Also, a lot of authors seem to ignore class relations.