Best title: "Sentinels of Miith" vs. "Bane of Miith" vs. "Miith's Bane"?

[Sev]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Several have said or suggested this. Can you explain why?

Some authors tend to repeat certain words in their prose, "bane" was one of Tolkiens favourites - consequently authors attempting to mimic his style often included it in their writing. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with using the word though - its part of the English language and its all fair game, but using it in the title just gives me a Tolkien flashback...

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

I have a few more ideas for in-story concepts that might make titles. What do you guys think of these?

- The Unspoken Covenant
- The Lie Sublime
- Tearing the Shroud

I was just glancing over this and it struck me that "The Sublime Shroud" sounded interesting, and though it probably wouldn't work for your book, it made me think that one of the best things a title can do is intrigue, and this often happens when you get words that you wouldn't expect to find together; you can't figure out what they might mean except by reading the book.

So to take your examples:

The Unspoken Covenant - OK, you have an agreement that's unspoken, I've understood that, no need to read the book, next!

The Lie Sublime - A perfect or beautiful lie, that's easily comprehensible, next!

Tearing the Shroud - some kind of shroud gets torn, as they do, next!

But ...

Eating the Shroud - WTH????? Now I need to know what on earth that title can possibly mean, so I examine the back cover a bit harder, flick through a few pages, and hopefully doing so will get me caught up in the story.

OK, so it might not be the best example, and obviously the title would need to make sense in the context of the story, but maybe you should look at titles that might provoke a reaction rather than summarise the novel?

[MistingWolf]

Unspoken Covenant is so far preferred, but mayhap keep searching for that right title. I know I changed mine many times.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I always tend to look at East Asian movies for title inspiration. I mean can it get any better than The House of Flying Daggers? I do have to say I'm endlessly tired of reading the word "Bane"...

[Kissmequick]

Ooops

I had no idea Bane was such a hated word.....

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by The Judge

Is the pronunciation important to the book? If not, why not go for something else? Mieth (My-eth), Maeth (May-eth) etc.

Yes, I could do that. I am also considering getting rid of "Miith" entirely and finding a better name that means someting. Trouble is, it has to be short, easily pronounceable and non-cheesy. I can manage one or two of those qualities, but all three at once is a challenge. :P

[HareBrain]

You mean find an alternative to "Miith"? I'd agree with that - I think I pointed out before, it sounds like you're trying to get the feel of "Myth" but spelling it differently, which as the name for a planet/world, does seem a bit cheesy. Even worse, it sounds like "Myth" as pronounced by a cartoon Spaniard.

[Spectrum]

Thanks for the replies.

I also have some more ideas for titles of series or books. The thread has shown that I am a bad judge of other people's reactions to titles, so I'd like some opinions on them too:

- Dominators of Miith
- Archons of Miith
- Entropy's Avatar
- Black Stars' Enigma
- Twilight Angel, Remember
- Sons of Darkess Rise
- Chaos Empower
- The Kenosis

[HareBrain]

For me, Entropy's Avatar, and Kenosis (if possible without the "the"). I also do like (maybe even prefer) Twilight Angel, Remember, but not sure if this is because I recognise it.

[Ursa major]

I have to say that I really like the title, Entropy's Avatar.

And what's not to like?

• It rolls off the tongue really well.
• It's intriguing: Avatars tend to represent "personalities" or, at the very least, something with programming; Entropy is concept, linked to an inevitable process.
• It has the flavour of an ancient god, such as a sun god, or a god of death (in the sense that this too is a process).
• It's got an anthropomorphic flavour and yet the two words invoke science and technology.

If I saw this title on a shelf in a bookshop, I'd look at the back of the book to see what it was about.



(I have one doubt, though: a very tiny one. It may be more attractive as a book title than a series tile (e.g. "Miith Match (book one of Entropy's Avatar)". There are ways round this: call the first book "Entropy's Avatar" and the second one, "<Whatever>, Volume Two of Entropy's Avatar" and so on.

[The Judge]

I have to say I wasn't that keen on any of the new ideas.

The first 2 (Dominators and Archons) are OKish as book titles if, indeed, the book concerns dominators and/or archons, since they are does-what-it-says-on-the-tin titles ** but I wouldn't use them for a series. 3, 4 and 7 (Entropy, Black Stars and Chaos) sound like let's-try-and-think-of-an-intriguing-title titles, ie ones that are literal non-sense and have no connection to the book. 5 (Twilight) sounds like a 1940s-set film noir starring Robert Mitchum with femmes fatales all over the place. 6 (Sons of Darkness) is a little cliched. I did like the sound of 8 (Kenosis) but I hadn't the faintest idea what it meant and having looked it up, I can't say I'm overwhelmed by the concept - but if it has meaning within the context of the book, fair enough. Do you have enough religiously-overtoned titles for the rest of the trilogy though?

Hmmm. Fussy aren't I? (I like to think 'discerning'.) And this might be a gender thing as HareBrain and Ursa are both taken with the intriguing titles.

Is there a central character whose name or title might be used? cf The Archon or The Sentinel - ie just plain and simple - and giving Miith a miss (the planet does sound like someone with a lisp I'm afraid, so it would be a good idea to change it if you can).

Sorry to be so negative.

J

** Spectrum - this probably isn't intelligible to anyone who doesn't watch British TV. There's an advert for some DIY product and a very blokeish looking man stands there with a tin of it, reads out the name which is self-explanatory as to what it does and says 'it does what it says on the tin'. This has fast become a cliche to which I am abnormally drawn.

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by The Judge

3, 4 and 7 (Entropy, Black Stars and Chaos) sound like let's-try-and-think-of-an-intriguing-title titles, ie ones that are literal non-sense and have no connection to the book.

I think that might be a little harsh, since Entropy's Avatar does have a literal meaning and I would assume has a relevant connection to the book. I appreciate that you were talking about the "feel" of it, but I think this particular one sounds too much like a specific character or power to fall into that trap - though maybe the others do.

However, Entropy's Avatar is perhaps a bit too reminiscent of Kushiel's Avatar. And I've gone off Kenosis since I looked it up.

Entropy's Face?
Entropy's Archon?
Entropy Zarcon?
Zarcon, Chaos Lord of Entropy?
Zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrkkkkghhg!?

Interesting thread, this - I wonder how many people are happy with the current titles for their WIPs, and how much agonising went into them?

Edit: wasn't there a series of vastly successful early computer adventures called Zork? Did people not have to bother in those days, or what?

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by HareBrain

Kenosis (if possible without the "the").

Cool. I'll consider dropping "the".

The book in question deals with a concept inspired by and vaguely similar to the concept of Kenosis from Christian theology. (My work is not Christian-themed, very far from it in fact, but I steal cool and evocative concepts and imagery from theology and mythology whenever I can.)

Originally Posted by The Judge

3, 4 and 7 (Entropy, Black Stars and Chaos) sound like let's-try-and-think-of-an-intriguing-title titles, ie ones that are literal non-sense and have no connection to the book.

Entropy's Avatar and Chaos Empower are actually fairly accurate descriptions of the main plots of those books.

You're right about Black Stars' Enigma, to some extent. It is the name of a fictional Necronomicon-style book that plays a role in the story in question, which deals with enigmata somewhat related to some "black stars", but it's not particularly deep.

Originally Posted by The Judge

Is there a central character whose name or title might be used?

I don't have one main character. One of my major characters is Quessanth Ishnaruchaefir, whose titles include "the Destroyer" and "the Exile". "Destroyer" is quite generic, but I might be able to do something with "Exile".

Or what? Is "Exile" also a hated word nowadays?

Originally Posted by The Judge

** Spectrum - this probably isn't intelligible to anyone who doesn't watch British TV. There's an advert for some DIY product and a very blokeish looking man stands there with a tin of it, reads out the name which is self-explanatory as to what it does and says 'it does what it says on the tin'. This has fast become a cliche to which I am abnormally drawn.

Nah, it's perfectly intelligible. I read TV Tropes.

Originally Posted by HareBrain

However, Entropy's Avatar is perhaps a bit too reminiscent of Kushiel's Avatar

This was brought up before. Someone mentioned that The Unspoken Covenant might be bad because it overlaps with The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Do you people seriously fear that some readers might shy away from a title because it has a word in common with some other, well-known work? As I said, I am a bad judge of other people's reactions, but I can't imagine I would ever react like that.

[dustinzgirl]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Thanks for the replies.

I also have some more ideas for titles of series or books. The thread has shown that I am a bad judge of other people's reactions to titles, so I'd like some opinions on them too:

- Dominators of Miith
- Archons of Miith
- Entropy's Avatar
- Black Stars' Enigma
- Twilight Angel, Remember
- Sons of Darkess Rise
- Chaos Empower
- The Kenosis

I don't like any of those titles. They feel like random adjectives, and not descriptive of anything.

I tend to lean towards descriptive active titles for my favorites, like The Dragon Reborn; Dragons of Spring Dawning; The Hellbound Heart; The Robots of Dawn; The Dark Tower......

They have nouns and adjectives.

Why archons? Why not just Rulers? Why Kenosis? Why not just, Emptyness? Usually the simplest answer is the best one, and the most sellable one, too.

Dominators is not really a word, its an alien race from the DC Universe, or a few local baseball teams. Domination of Miith (why the 2 i's???) sounds much cooler, and I'd probably read that.

Entropy's Avatar---I'd like this, but my biggest problem with this title would be reading it outloud. Entropy's Avatar. Its just hard to say and not at all pretty. Yes, I like pretty words. Also, entropy is a term used in a lot of different types of theories, from thermodynamics to chaoticians, so I don't see how it can have an avatar, BUT as noted earlier the simplest answer is usually the best, something like Disorder's Avatar or something more definitive and not so loosely defined.

Black Stars' Enigma is OK, not great but decent, but you might be better served just dropping the black part, Stars' Enigma sounds perfect to my ears.

Twilight Angel, Remember. Honestly, this sounds like you are trying to cover up a cliche (twilight angel) with and addition (, Remember) so I don't like this one at all.

Sons of Darkness Rise is just bad grammar, but my favorite so far, but Sons of Darkness Rising sounds much better. Although I get it if Darkness Rise is an actual proper noun rather than a adjective-verb combo, it still sounds better. Or, Sons of Dark Rise, is much simpler also.

Chaos Empower---this just sounds like you are trying too hard and lack skill. What about Empowering Chaos? Its descriptive and active.

Anyways...just my thoughts, don't take them to heart.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by dustinzgirl

Entropy's Avatar---I'd like this, but my biggest problem with this title would be reading it outloud. Entropy's Avatar. Its just hard to say and not at all pretty.

Perhaps it's because of the difference in our accents, Dusty, but I find Entropy's Avatar very easy to say; even out loud.