The Greatest Jedi of All

[C Of K]

Kyp is actually in quite a few books now. He first appeared in KJ Anderson's Jedi Search.

Now this is before the whole Midi-Chlorian thing came about, but I think it was Wedge who found the old (Imperial?) devices that could measure the potential of force adepts.

I don't think Luke knew how to judge the results that the device gave all that much, but Kyp's measurements were noticeably different than everyone else's.

Kyp's story does seem to parallel Vader's quite closely, though.

[Delvo]

I've been wondering something about the search for new Jedi after the fall of the Empire. How can there be so many, and how can so many of them not be rather weak? We're told by Qui-Gonn that the Republic was able to identify Force-users throughout the Republic while they were very young. The Emperor and Darth Vader apparently could do so too, since the Emperor had that whole "Emperor's Hand" program going where he'd even find relatively weak Force-users without much Jedi potential and train them a bit to do his "special" work for him. They certainly had incentive to find them wherever they could, at least to kill them even if not recruit them, especially the more powerful ones who didn't become Emperor's Hands. And the most likely source of new Force-users is the children of known ones anyway, and those were all wiped out by the end of TRotJ except for Darth Vader's two children. Based on all of that, the Skywalkers should be just about alone in the galaxy... maybe a few stragglers or random new cases here and there.

But instead we've got quite a large amount of Force-using ability out there. How could these folks exist without drawing the Empire's attention but then still be noticed by the New Republic? The New Republic's search method ("investigate reports about people who seem too lucky") certainly can't be a vast improvement over the established earlier methods. Is there something about the Force that compels it to have outlets, so that if there aren't enough Force-users out there it's compelled to randomly attach itself to some more new people?

[C Of K]

Originally Posted by Delvo

Is there something about the Force that compels it to have outlets, so that if there aren't enough Force-users out there it's compelled to randomly attach itself to some more new people?

Well, the force has shown itself to be more than just a stagnant pool of power for people to draw off of. In GL's vision, the force has a purpose, and a will, and moves events in the galaxy to accomplish its own ends.

In this sense, Luke is a dutiful servant of the force, listening to it as it guides him to find new jedi. But many of the members of the new jedi order were born after the fall of the Empire, in which case the Empire had no means with which to find these people.

They certainly had incentive to find them wherever they could, at least to kill them even if not recruit them, especially the more powerful ones who didn't become Emperor's Hands.

Actually considering the burdens of running and Empire at war, the Emperor probably had little care to kill people with sensitivity to the force unless they were already trained to use it. Few people could become sufficiently adept jedi on their own to pose any kind of threat to the Empire. The only reason Luke caused any kind of disturbance in the force, was because he had been trained to use it by Ben Kenobi in ANH.

But the Emperor also couldn't afford to recruit many of these "Hands" either. As far as I know, the "Hands" didn't know about each other. Could you imagine trying to keep a couple hundred of them separated? 0.o

And the most likely source of new Force-users is the children of known ones anyway, and those were all wiped out by the end of TRotJ except for Darth Vader's two children.

How many children of known ones could there have been? Anakin was probably one of the few who would even dare go that road before the rise of the Empire. After the rise of the Empire, any surviving jedi did too much running and hiding to consider having children for the first few years. Even after a few years, most would probably be too disillusioned to attempt raising the jedi order again. (especially with their own children)

Obi Wan was probably not disillusioned a.) because he knew Yoda was alive and b.) because he had direct contact with Qui Gon Jinn. But the powers of most jedi were probably very diminished during the dark times.

I've been wondering something about the search for new Jedi after the fall of the Empire. How can there be so many, and how can so many of them not be rather weak?

Regardless of everything I said above, there probably is too many. It's likely however, that many of these jedi are weaker than you assume. But few jedi were ever portrayed as incompetent, so perhaps they don't come off as being weak...

Based on all of that, the Skywalkers should be just about alone in the galaxy... maybe a few stragglers or random new cases here and there.

Agreed. I think if there were not so many, better stories might be told. But horses for courses, of course.

we've got quite a large amount of Force-using ability out there. How could these folks exist without drawing the Empire's attention but then still be noticed by the New Republic? The New Republic's search method ("investigate reports about people who seem too lucky") certainly can't be a vast improvement over the established earlier methods.

In conclusion, I don't think it has as much to do with search methods, so much as it has to do with searching in general. By the time of ANH the Empire had likely stopped searching for jedi. Luke was doing almost nothing but searching at the time he became a jedi master.

[Majimaune]

Originally Posted by Delvo

We're told by Qui-Gonn that the Republic was able to identify Force-users throughout the Republic while they were very young. The Emperor and Darth Vader apparently could do so too, since the Emperor had that whole "Emperor's Hand" program going where he'd even find relatively weak Force-users without much Jedi potential and train them a bit to do his "special" work for him. They certainly had incentive to find them wherever they could, at least to kill them even if not recruit them, especially the more powerful ones who didn't become Emperor's Hands.

Well with that they weren't a threat to the Palpatine and Vader because they weren't trained and probably didn't know they could use the force. Take Corran Horn for example. He didn't know he was a force adept until he found out who his real father and grandfather were and then found his grandfather's lightsaber.

[Joel007]

Although Corran had a reputation for hunches and reflex before that.
I remember in Jedi Search or one of that trilogy when Luke finds 2 ways of determining if someone is force sensetive. A technological one which the Emperor had made, and a certain part of the subconcious mind which gives a force push reflex if probed.

Given that they usually say the force has a purpose it wants to get done, that would explain why people are thrust into circumstances which end up with them becoming force users.

[Majimaune]

Yeah the force is a greater power or the greater power in SW. It has a purpose doing all the stuff it does.

[Brigitte]

I'm gonna have to agree with a post made way back at the beginning-Samuel L. Jackson was the best Jedi ever. Who else could survive a wonderful movie like "Snakes on a Plane"?

On a serious note, I'm gonna have to go with Yoda as the best Jedi. Come on, he's the smallest thing ever--like a cat--and he can still take on a dark lord in the second movie. How cool is that?

[Joel007]

Yoda is easily the coolest, yes
If you haven't read the books in which he plays a major part, you'd probably love them.

[Majimaune]

Yoda is heaps awesome in the books I hear. Haven't read them but planing on borrowing them from a friend who has so many SW books its not funny.

[Joel007]

How many? It might be funny.

[Majimaune]

I don't actually know. All the ones I want to read, he has. Is that a good amount for you? The only problem is that I hardly ever see him.

[Huttman]

I can see there has been a little dust collecting on the Star Wars thread here as of late, so let me shake it up a bit. Oh, wait, that's because I live in a desert, anyway here goes: So I was thinking, what constitutes 'the greatest'? It seems most Jedi mentioned as the greatest is because of their lightsabre skills, some because of the force power they channel, and some for their cool looks. While I can appreciate all those qualities, there is one quality I believe that is for the most part overlooked. Wisdom. For me the greatest jedi would have to have an abundance of wisdom, and with that being said, my favourite jedi, or the greatest in my eyes, is Qui-Gon Jinn. It is not because he found the way to immortality, although it might be a result of that, I like him because he was rebellious, and not for just the sake of rebelling. I think Qui-Gon followed the spirit of the teachings of the force, not the letter of the law of the council's rulings. There were more skilled fighters perhaps, but given time I bet he would have known about Palpatine before anyone else. O.K., that is speculation, but he believed heart and soul in Anakin, Obi-Wan's padawan outlook was 'another pathetic lifeform'. He trained him through obligation more than anything, and while a close relationship did develop (kudos for Obi-Wan), he was never warmly welcomed by any other jedi, and actually just the opposite. Qui-Gon's ambition obviously was not to attain to the rank of council jedi master, or else he would have had it already. His interest was the true will of the force, that is why Obi-Wan Kenobi was such a brilliant jedi, and that is why I would have wanted Qui-Gon Jinn as my force teacher!

[biodroid]

I reckon Obi-Wan is quite powerful, even though he died by Vaders hand he did say he will become more powerful in the Force (I think). Luke is definitley the powerful one. Did he not overcome the temptations of Vader and the Emperor and defeat them both? Will have to watch my box set again for the 30th time. I guess there is so much to find out that warrants watching it another 30 times after.

[Majimaune]

I can't remember who I said but as I keep reading the books I have changed my opinion. Kyp Durron.

[Daidman]

I have read many books (I am new btw) from what I have read Jacen Solo, seems like one of the most powerful in post ROJ. Sure he started out as a wimpy bug collector, but near the end of the New Jedi Order he is able to be quite dangerous even without the force. Now a quote
"I tell you this: though neither he nor they yet know it, he is the greatest of all the Jedi. Jacen Solo is the living Jedi dream. Even without the Force, he is more dangerous than you can possibly imagine."
Veregere