T4: Terminator Salvation (2009)

[Rodders]

Am i the only one looking forward to seeing this?

McG isn't writing the script for this is he?

[dustinzgirl]

Originally Posted by Coolhand

McG is directing?
Is this the same McG who brought us the two Charlies Angels movies?
I see...

And Supernatural and lots of other things I like.

McG is so cool.

And, I liked Charlies Angels.

And, while its obviously not original, did anyone watch the original Terminator for the first time and not go, dude, I wish they would make a movie about the robot apocalypse? Because I've been waiting for that since I was like, a kid.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by dustinzgirl

And, while its obviously not original, did anyone watch the original Terminator for the first time and not go, dude, I wish they would make a movie about the robot apocalypse? Because I've been waiting for that since I was like, a kid.

I'll have to agree on that, and from the trailer it doesn't look that bad. What I couldn't stand would be yet another Terminator is sent back from the future film.

[Rodders]

I'm looking forward to this. The set pieces look good.

Let'e be honest, this story has been waiting to be told since the original Terminator. At least they're not trying to invent one out of thin air.

Love it or hate it, this is going to be an interesting film.

[Connavar]

Bale is awesome and he brings intense quality to all his movies. I saw the trailer and Bale as John Connor looked too good. One of few actors in hollywood who can pull of the role perfectly.

Im waiting for it alot more than i cared about it before the trailer.

[Lady of Winterfell]

I just saw the preview for this in the theatre yesterday, and it looked spectacular. I can't wait for it to come out.

[Dave]

I've seen the film, so this thread has spoilers.

First off, I liked it. I liked it more than I expected though 'Star Trek' is better IMHO.

The theme is of a Terminator with a heart. Not just an 'emotional heart' like Arnie in 'Terminator 2', but this time Marcus Wright also has a real human heart. He is a death row convict who donated his body to Cyberdyne Systems in return for a kiss. Skynet has now begun to build the first T-800 Terminators with flesh and blood. He is one-off prototype who really believes he is human, which is a puzzle to John Connor who has only seen the enemy before as machines (he must have forgotten all of his teenage years when he had Summer Glau as a minder!) The idea is that Marcus can infiltrate the Resistance and it works until his human side shows through.

I've just read 'Frankenstein' and their are many parallels - the created man who is a multiple murder but intensely regrets his actions and merely wants to be human and to find his creator.

The film was also derivative in a number of other ways - the Resistance Command is a submarine with more than a passing resemblance to 'The Nebecanezzar' and the Machine Army from 'The Matrix' is not unlike the Terminators, espcially the gunships and snake-like things. And there are a startling number of different new Terminator types of almost Pokemon proportions, or were they 'Transformers'? Then there was the mute child who saved the day more than once - Newt from 'Aliens' anyone?

I did like the film until shortly before the end when all the 'heart' stuff just got overplayed. Marcus has a real heart, just more powerful. This makes him vulnerable to attack by a Terminator who stops it with a punch to his chest. Connor uses the mains electricity to re-start his heart, but is then mortally wounded himself. So, Marcus, the 'man with a heart' donates his own heart to Connor. This takes place in a field hospital in the middle of a battle, without tissue-typing, and a damaged heart, performed by a Veterinarian.

The other theme is the protection of Kyle Reese. You would expect that by 2018 if John Connor still lived, then he was safe at last, but of course if Kyle dies he cannot save Sarah Connor and father the unborn John. The Skynet hit list now has Kyle at number one and Connor at number two. The Time Travel paradoxes will continue so the best thing John can do in the next film will be to send Kyle back as soon as possible. No sign of Kyle's brother, Derek, which makes you wonder if the writers of this film ever watch 'The Sarah Connor Chronicles' TV series.

I also found the need to insert the lines "Come with me", "Come with me if you want to live", and "I'll be back" at various places rather irritating.

[Dave]

I found this on wikipedia which partly explains the weak ending:

In the early script drafts, John was a secondary character. Producer James Middleton explained "Ben-Hur was influenced by Jesus Christ, but it was his story. Much in that way, this [new main] character will be influenced by John Connor." The original ending was to have John killed, and his image kept alive by the resistance by grafting his skin onto Marcus' cybernetic body.
However, after the Internet leak[clarification needed], Warner Bros. decided to completely change the entire third act of the film. McG and Nolan did continue the Christ element of John's character though, in which he has some followers who believe what he knows about Skynet, and others who do not.

McG described the film's theme as "where you draw the line between machines and humans". The friendship between Marcus — who was executed (for murder) when humanity still ruled the world — and Kyle Reese illustrates how war and suffering can bring out the best in people, such as when they worked together to survive during the Blitz. The title was derived from this second chance given to humanity and to Marcus, in addition to John's efforts to save humanity from the machines.

I meant to add earlier that 'Second Chances' is certainly another theme in the film.

[Will83]

After Terminator 3, this was a welcome return to taking the Terminator universe seriously. Sure, it was mostly cliches, but there were nice moments.

Sam Worthington was given quite a few challenges to overcome in the script. He's the cliche reluctant hero, the mold we've seen virtually every actor in Hollywood try to tackle. Most of them are cliche—bad derivatives of previous reluctant heroes—but a few manage to have nice moments. The Marcus character is meant to be a plot device, something to get us to question what constitutes free will and all that jazz, but he ends up being the main character. Which is interesting.

Moreover, Marcus really gets us thinking about Skynet. The short discussion between Marcus and Skynet seemed to communicate more about Skynet than the previous 3 films combined. Skynet, from an intellectual standpoint, is brilliant. It can carry out complex military strategies across the planet. From a developmental standpoint, it seems almost petty. It mocks Marcus several times, gloating prematurely about it's victory via subterfuge. I left wondering if Skynet isn't acting in self defense but is rather tantruming by exterminating humanity. Perhaps it wanted a cookie.

Bale may not have been the most brilliant choice for Connor (he has apparently become unable to stop speaking in his Batman voice), but he had a few moments with Common and Bryce Dallas Howard that seem very authentic. Considering the movie is mostly about Marcus but is supposed to lead into a strong Connor sequel it somehow managed to work well.

My hope is that the sequel will really get into the meat and potatoes of what it is to be a futuristic war/apocolypse drama. While I'd like them to start tying up the incredibly complex time travel plot they've been developing, I think it might be too late. Let's just go nuts, and someone give Christian Bale a losange.

7/10

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Dave

I found this on wikipedia which partly explains the weak ending:I meant to add earlier that 'Second Chances' is certainly another theme in the film.

Good move not to kill John Connor, first the series is about him and Terminator. Second it would never become a new franchise like they hope specially with the ending.

Christian Bale is much stronger lead actor than Sam Worthington. He would never carry a series like this.

[Dave]

If I read that correctly, the intention was to have Marcus become John though, and for John Connor to actually be a Terminator himself would have been an interesting twist in the tale. Bale is a better actor but I have to agree with Will83 about the 'Batman' voice.

[C Of K]

I found the movie like-able. I still don't think they've made a Terminator that can match the first movie.

There was something that caught my attention. In Salvation Kyle warned Marcus not to go out at night, because the machines use infrared.

In the first Terminator, Kyle told Sarah that in the future, people stayed down by day, and moved around more at night despite the machines using infrared.

It seems the people who survived Salvation are in for advanced training now that Connor has the helm.

Oh, and just one more crit. I hope-to-God, in the next movie, someone can refer to Kyle without using his full name. Even once would make the movie less annoying. I understand why they did it, and I even liked the kid they chose to be him. But there are more discrete ways to achieve his identity than having him advertise his full name to everyone who asks. I noticed it right away, everytime. He referred to himself by full name. Every time someone inquired. I never do that unless it's expected, and for some reason, in that future, I would imagine last names have less meaning than they do now - unless of course you're skynet, and you're looking for specific people. But Kyle didn't know he was on a special hit list.

[Connavar]

I saw it last night, i thought action wise it was very good but the story lacked. John Conner didnt get many calm scenes that did anything for the story. Marcus story started well but ended up very clichè. With take my heart thing that they overplayed in the end,Skynet AI being stupid enough to let Marcus do everything he did with their computers in the stronghold.

The writing must be much better next film otherwise there is no point. You need to write near as well as T2. Make it more thrilling the story like T2 and not just focus on the action imo.

Bale acting saved the John Conner side of the story for me. He using the voice,everything is the writers,directors lack of good writing.

[Rodders]

I haven't yet seen this so i may be wrong, but i personally felt that Bale is miscast as John Connor. I think the studios are riding the coattails of Batman.

Shame Edward Furlong can't get his act together. He would have been good.

[Will83]

I agree that he was miscast, but he's still a very skilled action actor. We don't get many of those, so we have to be liberal with what we've got. Personally, I think Sam Worthington would have made a better Conner, but he did well enough as Marcus.

And I'm digging the Star Wars reference in your user title!