What not to put in a children's fantasy?

[Blackrook]

I think you're right about Dumbo. The "Pink Elephants on Parade" song would never be allowed today.

I've also noticed that all the scary endings of the Grimm's Faiytales have been sanitized to protect our delicate children.

Political correctness has abolished other stories, like Little Black Sambo and Huckleberry Finn.

It's interesting how our society has more restrictive in what is allowed in children's fiction. At the same time, our society's morals have collapsed.

A seeming contradiction, or is it?

[dustinzgirl]

You know, I find it increasingly sad in our society that many things now have negative political undertones that shouldn't be there at all. I could name off a ton of them, but I'm not going to.

As far as drunks go, I don't see a problem with it. Most preteens know what drunk is, but there has to be a cautionary moral to it, I think. Which is why most books make the drunk a comedian fool, because they are all saying 'look, if you drink, you are going to look like a fool' and that is fine. I have not come across a children book that glorifies drinking, but there are a lot of commercials and television shows that do, so you have to make sure that you are not making it something awesome that everyone wants to do.

And some general thoughts about kids books that I have come up with;

Since I have kids, these are the things I really hate in childrens books--

Complicated words. Yes, kids are smart (my kids are geniuses, and perfect) but the more complicated the word, the harder it is for a parent to explain it when reading a bed time story after working a ten hour shift. For example, superfluous--why would that word be in a book for 9-12 year olds? Seriously. Easy to define words. Its ok if they are long words, I don't mind that, but words that are easy to explain!

It also depends on your age group and the type of kid you are writing for.

Now, I would think that most parents wouldn't mind alternative lifestyles. That is fine. But, if you are writing for the under 13 age group, nothing more than hand holding and a light peck on the cheek is appropriate for my kids. No daytime TV type of themes, I don't let my kids watch daytime TV because its full of selfish people, and that's just sad. Most childrens books only have one selfish bad person, who learns how to be a nice person.

[Teresa Edgerton]

The stories collected by Grimm were not originally intended for children. They were meant for blood-thirsty adults. Also, every generation retells these stories to appeal to contemporary sensibilities. Grimm, for instance, actually added violence to some of the stories between the earliest edition and the last one printed during his lifetime.

Children today are exposed to plenty of violence, and not all current children's editions of Grimm's Fairy Tales are sanitized versions. The idea that they are is one of those things that people accept simply because everyone says so, but anyone who does a little research into the subject can tell you that this is not the case. There are versions for very young children that leave out some of the more gratuitous violence; at the same time, there are versions for small children that don't. However, I have always found the idea that there is some virtue in hardening children at an early age a curious one.

As for the subject of drunkenness in children's books and films, that may have been more acceptable in the past because juvenile alcoholism and drug use weren't a problem. Also, so many children these days grow up in homes where one or both parents have drinking problems, they might not find much humor in scenes of adult intoxication (even if the adults aren't precisely human).

[Blackrook]

I would not read my children stories of grotesque violence, that is not what I'm talking about.

But many of the stories have been changed to remove death as a consequence of foolishness. For example, the Three Little Pigs story loses all meaning when the first two little pigs escape death for their foolishness in building inadequate housing.

It's a very harsh world out there, and we tell our kids stories to prepare them for it. If we sanitize stories of consequences, our children will not learn the lessons these stories are meant to convey, and will be less prepared to deal with the real world when they are on their own.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Blackrook

But many of the stories have been changed to remove death as a consequence of foolishness. For example, the Three Little Pigs story loses all meaning when the first two little pigs escape death for their foolishness in building inadequate housing.

Really? No punishment less than being killed and eaten would get the message across?

It seems to me that we don't have to make consequences unrealistically scary in order to prepare our children for real life. In fact, it might be better to teach them about things that could actually happen, if the idea is really to teach them a lesson.

And I think it's actually rather tiresomely Victorian to think that every story must have a moral. Sometimes stories should just be stories, without the heavy-handed lesson.

[the smiling weirwood]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

As for the subject of drunkenness in children's books and films, that may have been more acceptable in the past because juvenile alcoholism and drug use weren't a problem. Also, so many children these days grow up in homes where one or both parents have drinking problems, they might not find much humor in scenes of adult intoxication (even if the adults aren't precisely human).

I agree. Now I'm not going to go all teetotaler on you, but I wouldn't let my children(If I ever had any) read anything that presents drinking and intoxication in anything even close to a positive light. Not before they are old enough to learn about how alcohol can become a problem and how adults should use it responsibly.

[PTeppic]

If you're looking to write "comic drunk" there's also "comic hang-over", the morning after. Though it goes against the point made by TSW.

[KESpires]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

Actually, if you read much "children's literature" from any age, you'll find that a fair amount ends unhappily, or at least ambiguously. Certainly, some of the classic fairy tales do. (Cf. Anderson's "The Little Mermaid", which leaves the possibility of a happy resolution, but not an unalloyed one, or the original of "Little Red Riding Hood".) Even those which were about a moral -- and not all are -- were as much about a prohibition as about a moral in the positive sense; thus those who overstepped the prohibition frequently came to unhappy ends....

I've got a Brothers Grimm fairy tale book. It's really old. In one story, as I was reading it to my son, I realized that it wasn't heading anywhere happy. I finished the story anyway, feeling strange at the idea of considering censoring it. In it a cat and mouse live together. They buy a pot of fat for the winter. Each feels it is better not to keep it at their house because of the temptation. Eventually the cat begins to make excuses to go get a taste of the fat. He does this three times. The mouse becomes wise to the cat's ploy. The cat warns the mouse not to say anything about it. The mouse does anyway. The cat eats the mouse and the story ended with, "and that is the way of the world."

So, to answer you question, children's literature is just that, a form of literature. Literature doesn't imply any sort of ending. End it how you feel the story should end.

[BookStop]

Most of Grimm's fariy-tales have been whitewashed to maintain a pc compatibiliy folks find suitable for children today. I'm aware that the originals were often quite violent - Snow White's mother, not step-mother, plotted to kill her and when caught was forced to dance to the death in hot iron shoes - but I'm not necessarily sure I like the pc versions either. Children are often quite wise in thier own way and capable of digesting a little violence without turning to violence themselves. As anyone who has children knows, give them a little bloodshed int he story and they'll probably like it all the more. Of course, all children are different, and in the end it's a parent's job to figure out what thier kids can or cannot handle.

As far as having a drunken character in a fantasy story for kids, I'm all for it. Proper language almost more thn situation is what is important in kids books. I assume also by reading the early posts, this story being discused isn't meant for the 5 yr old crowd anyway, and goodness knows, pre-teens and teens are often exposed to worse in school, in the company of thier friends out playing kick-ball, in thier own home, on tv....

[misscousins]

Another question is...

As a protagonist, is a 7yr old too young to be considered as a leader, adventurer and hero in fantasy stories?

Because I was hoping to focus my main character on being around 7 or 8, with adult leprechaun guardians on the adventure... now despite them being her guardians and companions on an adventure, the leprechauns rely on the child for her height and human strength. Do you think that would work, or do you think I should make her older, say 10 or 11?

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think you should write your story and see how these ideas work play out in the context. An idea is only so good as the way you execute it and the supporting details that give it (or don't give it) credibility.

And a lot of writing is trial and error. Running all your ideas by other people in advance doesn't really teach you anything except how they would write your story.

Sit down and write it and see if you can make it work for you. Then show what you have to others to see if it works for them.

[BookStop]

The only issue i see with having a 7yr old protagonist, is whether or not you asre writing for the 7yr old crowd? 7yr olds read at, approximately, a second grade level, so you need to be very careful about word usage in general and make sure you aren't making it too difficult. Kids older than 7 may not be as interested in reading about a child too much younger than themselves.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Good point, Bookstop. In fact, the vast majority of children prefer to hear about characters who are a few years older than themselves, so a a seven-or-eight-year-old protagonist generally means a book aimed at five-or-six-year olds.

[JamesMMcCann]

Avoid gratutious sex and swearing in children's books. Try to avoid racism and violence unless they're important to the plot.

Just my opinion.

[diegesis]

I think the most you try to hide things that happen in real life, the more the children will know they are "deceived". Maybe you can use a "softer" language, or present things funnier but if you have a fest with alcohol it is unatural not to have drunk people.
Also, a child wants to be treated as an adult so as to be interested in a story. I remember that I always tried secretely to read my bigger sisters books or watch television series i wasn't allowed. If you "trick" children that your story is meant for teenagers maybe, then they would be flattered and interested.
For example, put a french kiss in your story and see what happens.