Whisper My Name

[The Procrastinator]

You might try snaffling a beta-reader or two, if you aren't too confident about your own editing/critiquing skills. I'm sure you could get some quite experienced volunteers around here, to give you a bit of a different perspective on things - and then you wouldn't need to post much in public, because that could all be done via email. Your stuff is very good and worth pursuing.

[reiver33]

Right then, I'm going to go away and have a think about all this, and thanks (big thanks) to you all for both the rabidly obsessive nit-picking (joke!) and encouragement....

Cheers!

Martin

PS Damn - this means you'll miss the full English breakfast and gunfire combination!

[Michael01]

Not if we can buy the book! Which would just be ... well ... awesome.

[Blackrook]

Originally Posted by Boneman

By Blackrook

Blackrook, you need to come to England....... there are loads of them on the streets.....rotting mostly, or waiting for the breakdown van. You're not anywhere near Carson City are you?

I'm in Las Vegas, which is 11 hours away from Carson City by car. But no one drives, they fly. A flight to Reno takes one hour, and then it's only a short drive to Carson City after that.

The reason I ask about the Alfa Romeo is that it seems, from an American point of view, out of place for the hero of this story, who presumably has modest means. I looked on the internet and learned that this car sells for $166,000 in the U.S. The kind of car a tech support guy would drive would cost $10,000 or less.

When I read the words "Alfa Romeo" the first thing that came to mind was James Bond. To Americans, the Alfa Romeo is a "spy car" and we will unconsciously assume any hero driving one has all the latest weapons and equipment provided by Her Majesty's Secret Service: machine guns, oil slick weapon, rocket launchers, etc.

Which really leads into my second point, which is that this story is the best I've seen on this site so far, but would not make a good export to other English speaking countries. A reader in the United States, Canada or Australia is going to have a very difficult time slugging through all the slang words unique to Britain. I understand all these words, but many readers will not.

On top of that, there are many things the author assumes the reader knows, like the fact that London has a tight network of police cameras. I know this because I read British newspapers, but most readers outside Britain will have a hard time understanding what's going on. Or even worse, readers will assume that this story is set in some sort of Big Brother dystopia, which is not what the author intended.

But I do want to emphasize that I believe the author is a very talented storyteller, and of all the stories here, his is probably the most likely to be published. If the author is satisfied with publishing only in Britain, he need not concern himself with the above comments.

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by Blackrook

The reason I ask about the Alfa Romeo is that it seems, from an American point of view, out of place for the hero of this story, who presumably has modest means. I looked on the internet and learned that this car sells for $166,000 in the U.S. The kind of car a tech support guy would drive would cost $10,000 or less.

The 8C sells for that much. I saw nothing in the story to hint that the hero had bought their limited edition supercar, rather than a second-hand 156.

[Stylus]

Originally Posted by Blackrook

A reader in the United States, Canada or Australia is going to have a very difficult time slugging through all the slang words unique to Britain.

I'm no expert, but I'd assume that, if an English language book is sold to another English speaking country (divided by a common language and all that), the publisher of that country will go through the text and highlight any words that should be changed for clarity/slang/pop culture etc.

Specifically, I'm thinking of an article I read about Harry Potter: the traditional Christmas jumper given to Ron Weasley was apparently changed for U.S. readers (where 'jumper' is not a woollen sweater, but a dress). I don't think the sanctity of the text matters so much that you have to make people wonder why a schoolboy's mother would send them girl's clothing every year!

And I'll add my praise for reiver33's writing – it's not my favourite genre, but I really enjoyed reading this story. Hope you stick at it and make something from it.

[Boneman]

Yeah, I'd agree with Blackrook, now I think about it - an alfa romeo used to be a real status symbol, it's just that here in the UK it has dropped and dropped in status in our minds, so we don't give them a second glance....So there's a market in buying crappy alfas, doing them up and shipping them to the US?

I was standing in a car park in Tennessee, (The trip started in Carson City, went down through Las vegas and out toward Florida and then back......) and a kid admired my bike, and when I spoke he said "You're from Britain." I asked how he knew (normally they say Australia) and he said "The Harry Potter Films."

[The Procrastinator]

Originally Posted by Blackrook

A reader in the United States, Canada or Australia is going to have a very difficult time slugging through all the slang words unique to Britain.

Well, not the Aussies so much. We are still rather attached to Mother England in a way. We like to maintain close ties so we can keep thrashing the Pommies at the Cricket.

I take your point, but my opinion is any reader worth their salt will make the effort to understand. I think its healthy for people to know a bit about how English is used in other countries, and I think the "translating" of words like jumper just promotes mental or even cultural laziness. I don't expect American slang or spelling to be "Australianised" when its an American book, and the same goes for the Pommy stuff.

[Michael01]

Originally Posted by The Procrastinator

I think its healthy for people to know a bit about how English is used in other countries, and I think the "translating" of words like jumper just promotes mental or even cultural laziness.

I agree. I always thought it was odd one of the titles was changed for American readers. No, I wouldn't know what a jumper is in Britian, but I do know what a Philosopher's Stone is. We can be more open to that. Besides, if the story takes place in England, wouldn't British slang be more believable?

[Stylus]

Originally Posted by The Procrastinator

I think its healthy for people to know a bit about how English is used in other countries, and I think the "translating" of words like jumper just promotes mental or even cultural laziness.

To a certain extent, I agree with this, and personally I don't mind having cultural references that are beyond my ken. If the writing is good, you can usually work out what the reference means; it might even be interesting enough to explore further. Even with domestic film/television/books, you may encounter unfamiliar jargon (When I was younger, I remember watching a lot of 'grown-up' T.V. programmes – nothing particularly adult, just not pitched at kids – and having to make the jump over all the pop culture jokes that went over my head – there's quite a few in Fawlty Towers alone), and I think your brain just gets trained to it.

However, to return to the jumper/dress point. I still think it is valid to switch words that cause needless confusion and would just break up the reader's immersion in the story, in the same way that colour/color gets changed.

For example, I wouldn't translate something like 'Marmite' in a text, because that is specific to a culture, but it would be silly not the change around something like chips/fries (or American audiences may wonder why anyone would enjoy eating a bag of deep-fried cod and crisps ... actually, that sounds quite tasty).

[The Procrastinator]

Originally Posted by Stylus

I still think it is valid to switch words that cause needless confusion and would just break up the reader's immersion in the story, in the same way that colour/color gets changed.

Can't agree, sorry. Why should one bunch of people be given the impression that everyone in the world speaks just like they do? Small contextual things like spelling and "dialect" adds to the overall flavour of a piece of writing and I think we are the poorer if we "culturally homogenise" written expression. Are people really so dim they can't work out what chips are in a given context? Or that a jumper might not be a dress? I also disagree with kid's books being changed in this way (never saw the point of changing the title of the Philosopher's Stone, for instance). The earlier on you realise that your vocabulary and spelling is not necessarily global, that there are other valid ways of spelling, speaking and writing even within the one language, the better it is for you in my opinion. It makes you more flexible and enriches your understanding of the world, and possibly even makes you a less insular thinker. It certainly helps minimise confusion if you travel to another English-speaking country.

I still say any reader worth their salt will deal with such differences, no matter how minor. Australia has a small population so the vast majority of the books we read are written elsewhere. We don't "Australianise" spelling or slang words. We expand our vocabularies instead; it's not that hard.

[Stylus]

Originally Posted by The Procrastinator

Small contextual things like spelling and "dialect" adds to the overall flavour of a piece of writing and I think we are the poorer if we "culturally homogenise" written expression.

Hmm ... on reflection, I agree with you. I'm not sure why I was putting up a defence for homogenisation when some my favourite books are teeming with very specific references to a time/place (Regency street-slang, in particular, is diamond of the first water). Thinking about it, a novel set in England where a character orders "fish and french fries" would sound utterly ridiculous.

I guess I was thinking of books from a sales/marketing point of view, with some words being naturalised in the same way that book covers are changed to appeal to different countries. The 'Philosopher's/Sorceror's Stone' switch was a marketing decision (and clearly not a wise one), but it didn't really affect the contents of the novel, just the 'packaging'. (I know titles can be important, but I don't think there are many first-time authors who would baulk at title-change if the publishers insisted).

Originally Posted by The Procrastinator

I still say any reader worth their salt will deal with such differences, no matter how minor.

And that's the thing with marketing - commerical fiction has to sell copies to as many people as possible, not just the ones who are clever/patient enough to expand their vocabularies. Maybe a lexicon at the back of the book is the answer.

[dreir]

*sigh* I thought I'd seen the last of 'em Marmite on these boards..

- Dreir -

ps: Very good points, TP.

[reiver33]

The car in question is a 1996 Alfa Romeo GTV 2.0 Twin Spark 16v Lusso. I chose this as I came across one for sale at £995 - looks fabulous, does zero to repair shop in under two weeks...

Incidently, is Marmite the same as Vegimite, just re-branded to amke it sound more exotic?

[dreir]

Zero to re... Lol.. I actually didn't get that on the first read..

Have no idea, but I think I would hate Vegimite just as much..

- Dreir -