What is the Effective way to write a vampire vs vampire fighting scene?

[sloweye]

Originally Posted by Saeltari

If the fighters are unequal it shouldn't last long at all, but check out some of the earliest boxing matches to see how long fights could go. I am thinking of the ones prior to tv.

All well and good, but these arn't normal humans, and i don't think a short pointless fight is really going to hold the readers imagenation. it has to be a bit gritty and superhero(ish) to show the fact they are supernatural beings. And how do you check out pre-TV boxing matches? (Genuine question)

[Saeltari]

Good q, and I think I got taken the wrong way. My point was that between two fighters of similiar ability the fight could last awhile, least until one has an accident or makes a mistake. The fights that they used to have, say in the 1800's, could last for hours; sure it was somewhat regulated but the length and skill were the points I was trying to emphasize. I didn't choose a very good example for my point, and yes, I have never taken a debate class .

Nik, came up with a much better example of what I was trying to get across. And I know some won't believe this but before tv there were newspapers and other written sources that can be checked out.

[sloweye]

Ahh, yeah. i see what you were getting at now mate

[Sapheron]

In the eighteen hundreds they were boxing, not fighting. There is a distict difference between the most realistic contact sports and actual combat.

If you go back to old bare knuckle boxing, as an example, they didn't punch to the face, throat, groin or back. They didn't kick, knee, elbow or headbutt. Yes, they could hammer away at each other's chests and stomachs for hours, but what does that show? One hard punch in the throat and they'd not be getting up for several minutes... if at all.

Real fights don't last.

In my opinion, as I've stated, a serious fight to the death between individuals with superhuman strength and speed would likely last a time measured in seconds. After all, with the power they have, they could kill one another almost instantly. Rather than comparing it to a battle between two unarmed humans, imagine a battle between two men with guns. Both will be very careful, not seriously attacking unless they can be sure of an advantage. When they see an opportunity, they'll go for it, and then either they'll get it right and kill the other, or mess it up and be killed themself.

If you want a close thing, try watching fencing. That's similar. The attacking power is overwhelmingly greater than the defensive power. They approach slowly and carefully. When they commit, it rarely lasts more than a second or two.

[sloweye]

^__________________________________^

No real fights dont last you are right, however, the point of a fight in a fantasy novel is that its not real. how dull would this book be if the fight lasted one punch. Vampires are suposed to only be killed by having their head cut off or a stake through the heart, the are suposed to be evil and strong.
Besides the fact that they are dead already and a punch to the throat would have very little efect on someone who dosen't need to breath.

[Sapheron]

Haha, I may have gotten a little carried away. Still...

"wall-shattering, bloodcurdling brawl between two powerful and sinister beings"

To me, a instantaneous and brutal moment fits that statement quite well. Short scenes are dull? Not at all. A short fight can be as dramatic as a longer one if it's done right.

One of my favourite fight scenes is the end of Cowboy Bebop, Spike versus Vicious. The whole thing lasts thirty seconds, but makes one of the best closing scenes out there. Why? It's quick, brutal, and leaves you reeling. No time to appreciate the fancy moves, no time to think about it. At the same time, the will to win is clear in both combatants and you know what they're thinking. For demonstrations of determination and intent, it's much more effective than any relentless five minute punch up at the end of a mainstream movie.

A matter of opinion, of course, but I'm a real supporter of short fights. They work so much better.

As a pedantic final comment, actually even if you didn't need to breathe a punch in the throat would floor you. A vampire would go down the same as anyone else, unless the way their body balanced itself was completely different. Move the head and neck and the body follows, regardless of the will of the owner. Funny thing, the human body. If they don't breathe they should be able to get up again though, admittedly.

[sloweye]

I do see your point, however as text you would need to pad it out with banter to keep people interested.
"he walked in and punched him and the fight was over" dosen't read as well as it would with a bit of torture and witty banter.

[Saeltari]

Oh, I don't know...

POW!
Thump!
Varick kicked the head of his fallen oppent to the corner as he glided over and bit the girl.

I think it has a certain charm.


Yep, there is a difference between a fight and a sport, but if a written fight went like an actual fight it wouldn't pack the punch (). Although, you have a point about a short one sometimes having an impact .

[JDP]

The only effective way to write a vampire-on-vampire fighting scene is eleven stanzas of rhyming couplets. I think Shakespeare did it best in 'From Dusk Til Dawn'.

As far as the fight being over really quickly, don't forget that although a twenty second fight might only give humans time for a few moves, if the vamps are quick enough, this would be a drawn-out battle... you can still get just as much action in, just remember that it's all happingin too fast for a human eye to follow. And if they're evenly matched, it's likely to be a mistake/lapse in concentration/act of fate that determines who wins; the victor will take immediate and deadly advantage of any slip.

[blairWitcher]

Thanks for those comments guys. I was wondering if you could write the "brawl Scene" where I could see all the points that you have pointed out so far...

Thnks to everyone

[mygoditsraining]

Shakespeare had it easy - stage direction: they fight.

That point ntowithstanding, I do love his illustration of fencing in Mercutio's description of Tybalt in Romeo and Juliet.

O, he is the courageous captain of compliments.
He fights as you sing prick-song,
keeps time, distance, and proportion;
rests me his minim rest,
one, two, and the third in your bosom:
the very butcher of a silk button,
a duellist, a duellist; a gentleman of the
very first house, of the first and second cause:
ah, the immortal passado! the punto reverso!

Combat is, as they say, a very rapid thing, and the master of timing will be the victor in both the combat, and the telling thereof.

[flynx]

Originally Posted by mygoditsraining

O, he is the courageous captain of compliments.
He fights as you sing prick-song,
keeps time, distance, and proportion;
rests me his minim rest,
one, two, and the third in your bosom:
the very butcher of a silk button,
a duellist, a duellist; a gentleman of the
very first house, of the first and second cause:
ah, the immortal passado! the punto reverso!

I always took that as a description of Tybalts poor wit and ungentlemanly conduct. Calling him a 'jock' if you will.

[Interference]

Originally Posted by JDP

I think Shakespeare did it best in 'From Dusk Til Dawn'.

I'm first to admit no Shakespeare scholar me, but what is this reference, JD?

As for the fight, how would vampires fight each other? Not roundhouse kicks and left-hooks, surely. A fight often starts becaus one person's goal is at odds with another's. One wants to save the girl, the other wants to prevent him. In vampire terms, this might come out as quite an intriguing block/counter-block sequence, more ballet than battle.

That's how I might tend to approach it, anyway. Going not so much for shock as some sort of art form, I guess.

Just a thought.

[mygoditsraining]

I always took that as a description of Tybalts poor wit and ungentlemanly conduct. Calling him a 'jock' if you will.

It describes rather neatly someone who is not only skilled with a sword, but also rather keen to use it to resolve matters of disagreement. Rather than being simply a brutish lout, he is a more subtle and sinister reflection of a gentleman's manners.

The opening lines: "compliments" - refers to formal manners, and "as you sing prick-song" would be to sing accurately to a score. Effectively, he observes all of the formalities required of a duelling gentleman, and pursues the "first and second cause" - the taking of offence and the issue of a challenge - in such a relentless yet perfect way that, although none can find fault with his manners, he is still labelled a "butcher".

Referring to the stage directions that see him fight, in the Spanish style, with sword and dagger in the off-hand, Martin Holmes writes in Shakespeare's Audience (1959, p. 30.):

"Tybalt...arouses the xenophobia of the audience, since the Spanish style of fencing is not only un-, but anti-English. Tybalt, as an Italian Iberified is, in a play set in Italy, the equivalent of the "Englishman Italianate", who made an excellent villain..."

I was, of course, being facetious when I commented that Shakespeare simply leaves his actors to fight it out: the character and manner of his actors was no more aptly demonstrated through the clash of swords than in the fateful encounter between Tybalt and Mercutio - an excellent discussion of this can be found in Shakespeare Quarterly* although I doubt many people other than fencers would find the article to be worth the ten dollars you'd pay if you don't get Uni access to it.

In any case, Shakespeare recounts the fight through Benvolio:

Tybalt deaf to peace, but that he tilts
With piercing steel at bold Mercutio's breast,
Who all as hot, turns deadly point to point,
And, with a martial scorn, with one hand beats
Cold death aside, and with the other sends
It back to Tybalt, whose dexterity,
Retorts it: Romeo he cries aloud,
'Hold, friends! friends, part!' and, swifter than
his tongue,
His agile arm beats down their fatal points,
And 'twixt them rushes; underneath whose arm
An envious thrust from Tybalt hit the life
Of stout Mercutio, and then Tybalt fled;
But by and by comes back to Romeo,
Who had but newly entertain'd revenge,
And to 't they go like lightning, for, ere I
Could draw to part them, was stout Tybalt slain.
And, as he fell, did Romeo turn and fly.
This is the truth, or let Benvolio die.

Gorgeous, isn't it?

*Soens, A.L., Shakespeare Quarterly, 1969, 20 (2), 121-127

[sloweye]

I hope this is ok, I’m no writer. I have called them the good vamp / bad vamp, and I can’t put the banter in as I don’t know the whole reason for the fight or where it fits in the story, but this is a rough outline of my thinking.

(Sorry for bad grammar and spelling but I’m dyslexic.)

A vampire fight.

The two vampires circle each other in a poorly lit room, a table (or something) between them. They speak in short, sharp sentences. Suddenly the Bad vampire lurches at the good one, grabbing him by the lapels, spinning him and slamming him into the wall causing plaster to fall.
With a look of pain the good vampire pushes him away breaking his grip and retaliating with a flurry of punches. The bad vampire ducks and weaves but the final punch connects with a sickening crunch causing him to momentarily lose his footing. As he falls he kicks the good vamps legs away and springs back to his feet as the good vamp crashes through the table (or chair).
The bad vamp moves with great speed toward him stamping his foot down trying to crush the good vamp, the good vamp scrabbles back wards, then placing his foot in the bad vamps stomach, forces him back across the room.
As the good vamp hauls himself up he picks up a shard of the splintered table, the bad vamp in a fit of rage, rushes him again, arms out stretched, as he reaches the good vamp the wood sinks deep into his chest. With his mouth gaping the good vamp looks into the bad vamps eyes as the bad vamp realizes what has happened, he staggers back holding the makeshift stake, he looks down at it as he sinks to his knees an finally falls face down to the floor.
The good vamp slumps against the wall, catching his breath and wiping the trickle of blood from the corner of his mouth, it was over.


Hope it helps