Wild speculation thread* Possible spoilers*

[thepaladin]

Let me drop in late and hopefully "re-awaken" this thread. There is a lot covered in your discussion, and it shows how great JB’s books are that we can get this into them Like lot of you, I like Luccio and never really liked Susan much. She was as has been pointed out far to into herself. The act of "sneaking into a Vampire soiree ( especially not understanding "the rules") was too much like the heroines of the old movies who insisted on "going with you" or "taking care of myself" and only managing to endanger everyone else in their attempts. Still JB seems to working on maturing her so...I better just shut up and wait, huh?
I think Luccio might end up being on the BC, but I hope not. Harry’s record in "affairs of the heart" hasn’t been too sterling so far and that could really scar him. Bob’s a possibility, but I doubt it. Harry got the scare of his life when he "unleashed" a part of Bob from when he was serving a "dark" sorcerer. Bob is as I understand it a spirit of intellect or knowledge, a form of air elemental. He’s either actually afraid of what he’s capable of and dark magic itself, or a very good actor. The Merlin in particular and the WC in general think his skull was destroyed. They don’t know Harry has it (him).
JB has hinted all along that there is something about harry that he himself doesn’t know, sort of the prophesied hero syndrome. In Small favor Harry has a couple of big changes, first he is just now apparently coming into some of his "wizard senses and powers" and..he has been "led" into the use of Soul magic....could be big stuff. So, I suspect JB has something in mind.
The Swords...right. You know Harry has established that the White Vamps aren’t actually "undead" They are either possessed (Like the Raith house other than Thomas) or struggling against it (that’s Thomas). If at an early age they "make the right choice" they don’t end up Vamps at all. It would be possible I believe that Thomas might be "rescued" from the "daemon" pushing him in the "incubi" direction. Could be.
I’m still hoping for Karen as far as the katana goes. She is such an obvious choice. Her reason for turning the sword down (honoring the oath she took and meant as a police officer) actually argues for her. Don’t know, Jim may not want it to go that way.
The on I’m a little "afraid of" because I really don’t care for the character (I don’t mean he’s not written well or not a good part of the books, just the opposite, he’s so much like a person to me I mean he’s someone I don’t care for, it’s the same way Harry feels about him). I find myself wondering about a "repentant" Johnny Marcone" as sword wielder. He’s been forced into "reviewing " the damage he’s caused in his life a couple of times now.
Oh well, anybody else with new thoughts? Maybe Turncoat will throw more light on some of it...Planning to try and grab it the day it comes out!

[Rothgar]

I don't see Marcone as a sword wielder. If Harry would unmake a sword by improperly using it I don't see a way Marcone could ever wield one. Besides so far he only fights when he has to, he's the brains behind his organization. My guess at this point is for Thomas and Kincaid to receive swords. I think Morgan and Murphy would be the perfect two to get them at this point because of their personality types, but I don't think Murphy will change her mind (at least for a while) and I don't think Morgan would care about the Denarians as long as he is a warden. I don't really see the point of a wizard having one of the swords with the power they already have. Does anyone think Michael will get better?

As far as the Black Council goes, I have no idea. If Justin is alive he is probably a part of it. Ancient Mai? I agree with everyone else that The Merlin is too obvious. Luccio would be possible. I was just thinking she seems too nice so far, but maybe she has a BC mission of turning Harry to their side. Getting close would be the only way to do it.

If Morgan is going to be framed and on the run for something in Turn Coat the book will probably deal with a lot of this Black Council stuff. It'll be interesting to see what more comes of the Soulfire.

[thepaladin]

Like most, I don't care for Morgan, but the point in the next book may be to force him to "finially' revaluate his relationship with Harry. Don't know. for now I don't see him as a sword wielder. The point i was making with Marcone was how much he's served "evil" in the past. Harry would have unmade the sword by using it to carry out a lie or deny his obligation...as the Red Court would have by slaying an innocent. If Marcone "repents" and "turns" then he would be a "true convert". In liturature and real life it seems to be true that "no one is harder on a thief, than a reformed thief." As I said, I don't care for Marcone, but I wonder if there isn't a "redemption" theme going on. That could work for Thomas to.

Not arguing for it, just that I see it as a possibility. Personally I hope it doesn't go that way.

You know Anciant Mai is still a conundrum, along with most of the senior council of the White Council. The BC could still hold any of them I suppose. I'd hate for it to be Ebenezar, but I suppose he could have ended up disillusioned at some point. Then there's the gate Keeper, well so on.

[The44]

Will Ancient Mai turn out to be a dragon as she was depicted in the TV series? If so, then her loyalties may be more at odds with the WC than we may have believed. The dragon we met at Bianca's party was no one to mess with, but he clearly had his own morality and that had little to do with human morality.

I agree that just because the Merlin is a pain in the backside does not make him an ipso facto candidate for the BC. Of course, it would just like JB to make someone so obvious turn out to be the one, after all. hehe

Yes, Harry's growth in ability is a good trend for the series. It is very consistent with a wizard's lifespan and is definitely good for the story line. Harry's enemies are not pushovers and he needs all of the abilities he can get.

The speculation about the White Court vamps is very interesting. I had not verbalized it enough to see the truth of what was stated above. Nice job, BTW. That would be a hoot to see Thomas with Amoracchius. Somehow the idea of the Sword of Love going to an incubus is just too delicious. mwaahaahaahaa JB would definitely climb up in my estimation for irony and a great pun.

[thepaladin]

I side stepped the dragon thing about Ancient Mai. I don't recall anything in the books that would lean that way. But the mystery thing and "possibly" anti-Harry thing is really there. Right now I think the question is wide open.

[Highlander II]

Aww - I'm sad that people don't like Morgan. I find him interesting.

Granted, I didn't like him in "Storm Front", but he grew on me in later books and now I'm really looking forward to reading "Turn Coat" to see what else we learn. Backstory is love! =)

[Saeltari]

I have to agree with you. I didn't like him much at first but he kind of grew on me, not in the way fungus would, unless it was benign...

He's not bad and I am looking forward to the new book for much the same reasons.

[The44]

I expect to see a lot of changes for Morgan in the next book. Somehow, I would not be surprised to Amoracchius make him an offer. That does assume that wizards are eligible. I really am looking forward to the next book. Pant, pant.

[Highlander II]

The main the to remember about ALL of the characters in the books is that we seem them all through Harry's 'eyes'. So, if Harry doesn't like a person much, we're not likely to like them either.

Our first 'image' of Morgan is the scary guy w/ the sword who's there to take out Harry for breaking the rules. Not a likable guy there. Later Harry realizes that Morgan is like a 'cop', and sees him a little differently, so we do too. Well, that's the general idea, anyway.

I don't remember when I started *really* finding Morgan interesting, but probably when we started learning more about him.

[Saeltari]

Originally Posted by Highlander II

The main the to remember about ALL of the characters in the books is that we seem them all through Harry's 'eyes'. So, if Harry doesn't like a person much, we're not likely to like them either.

Our first 'image' of Morgan is the scary guy w/ the sword who's there to take out Harry for breaking the rules. Not a likable guy there. Later Harry realizes that Morgan is like a 'cop', and sees him a little differently, so we do too. Well, that's the general idea, anyway.

I don't remember when I started *really* finding Morgan interesting, but probably when we started learning more about him.

Probably about the time Harry started respecting him as an actual person , going by what you are saying. Which, by the way, makes quite a bit of sense.

[Highlander II]

Could be, or it could have been on my 3rd or 4th read through/listen to of Storm Front. =)

[The44]

You are quite correct, Highlander II, about Morgan. He has great courage and internal integrity. He is a righteous dude, which drives most people up the wall and he sticks to his guns until he is definitely proven wrong or at least the need to rethink his position.

I agree that he has grown in my estimation, as well. We know that he recognizes Harry as having a great integrity and a soft spot for victims. Otherwise, he would never have darkened Harry's doorstep even in extremis. That alone tells us the extent to which Morgan has reevaluated one Harry Dresden, Wizard. Yes, Morgan's sword would have to be Amoracchius. The Katana is not his type of weapon.

I do not see John Marcone as being eligible for a sword. He is an ends justify the means and the vilelness of the means is irrelevant to him. That pretty well disavows his eligibility in my mind.

I have very mixed emotions about Karrin being a weilder of Fidlelacchius. She is a small woman. She is strong for a woman her size, but that cuts no ice in hand to hand combat with a dude who is good and will be a lot stronger. She will lose not just once, but virtually every time in real life. I do think that JB is quite aware of this and will not go PC on us.

If women matched up to men, then why do they not box against men, and why do they not compete against men in full contact martial arts? The reason is that they always lose. The same thing is true when it comes to the art of the sword. There is a good reason why the Naginata was the weapon of women. It is a standoff weapon, but if the opponent gets inside, you are dead. The caveat is that if it is used as a pointy quarterstaff, then she has a chance against any swordsman. A quarterstaff user will wipe out almost any swordsman.

Size and strength matter.

[Highlander II]

Ahh, but as Sanya says of her: "Tiny... but fierce."

If I recall, one of the keys to many martial arts is knowing your strengths. I've never been trained, so this is all hearsay. And Murphy is well aware that she is mostly out-matched in nearly any fight. However, the fact that she has this knowledge is a power in and of itself. She *knows* that she's out-classed. However, she also knows that the other guy is going to underestimate her power in using her abilities wisely.

Actually, even MacGyver demonstrated this one - RDA flipped Chris Judge in a football-type move in one episode (well, could've been stunt guys, but same principle) - smaller guy sent bigger guy flying b/c of smaller guy's center of gravity being lower.

Similar set-up w/ Murphy fighting Denarians. Technically, Michael and Sanya shouldn't win either, based on laws of physics - they don't have nearly the strength of the Fallen. But the swords 'even the odds'. So if Murphy did take up the sword, the sword would level the playing field and allow her to fight the Denarians the same way Michael and Sanya do. (Harry mentions this at the end of "Small Favor".)

So it's not all about size and skill, there's God in the mix too. Sort of the Knights of the Cross wildcard stepping in there against the Fallen.

However, this doesn't alter my opinion that I don't think Murphy should get one of the swords b/c I think it's too obvious. I won't be horribly upset if it happens, it's just not on the top of my list of 'things I wanna see happen in the books'. =)

[thepaladin]

I'm sort of hoping for Murphy to take up a sword...don't know yet, sometimes I think she won't but then it seems so right some how. Look at her "true visage" when Harry looks at her with his insight. In marshal arts size can be used to your advantage. Sme would also know that when when out classed in size or strength.. the first blow has to be, decisive.

[Saeltari]

Size and strength do matter to a point. But so do skill, technique, knowledge and balance, along with pressure points, joint locking and a myriad of other little things.

Do you honestly think a woman will lose everytime? Have you ever fought a well trained woman?

Are you saying a woman will lose to a man, just because she's a woman and he's a man?