What if you're no good?

[knivesout]

No, I don't really think I'm no good. I can put together sentences, paragraphy, even pages of what I'm not afraid to admit even I can see is rather lovely prose. And I do have ideas that bear the spark of real inspiration.

But in the end, all of my stories lack ... something. The characters don't quite gel, there's no real conflict, I get too caught up in describing the minutiae of someone's everyday life, the ideas aren't really developed as well as they should be.

What if I'm just talented enough to be an aspirant but not quite good enough to really cut it? How do you know?

[Leto]

At least you see where's your problem. Did you try to edit old stories focusing on this particular aspect of the story ?

Did you try to submit your work to professionals ? Or people who aren't good friends and family ? What did they say about your plots and your character personalisation ?
The excerpts everyone post here are too short to focus on this aspect.

And usually do you write directly in englsih or in your native tongue ?

[knivesout]

I've submitted my stories to professional markets. The things most consistently pointed out were a tendency towards inconsisten characterisation and lack of sustained conflict or tension. A general impression that the idea was good, but not really explored enough.

I think my biggest problem is in translating an idea into a human situation. I don't know people very well.

English virtually is my native tongue - I learned it at the age people usually learn their first language, I think in English, write in it and am really not half as fluent in any other language.

Basically, I feel I am a stage where need to I either push hard and get my writing in the shape it should be or admit that I'm merely a dilletante, faffing around with scraps of stories in between the business of earning a living and getting drunk.

[Leto]

So you need more info on how do people's mind work, right ? Why not trying to get training in this - by the way of books, of working in social services or association, of simply meeting people around and talking to them, and so on ? Or taking some acting class ?

To me, you just need to acquire more life experience in order to get your writing right. Time to be a real sponge and soak as much experiences (first-hand and second-hand) as you can before re-use it in your story. Besides, they're some courses available on how to add flesh to your characters (and keep it) or how to add tensions. Have a look at them too...

If you feel you're a dilletante and don't want to sweat on your writing, you may are - there's nothing to be ashamed of. But feeling desperate about your writing ability and still wanting to write is a good assumption you should push a bit harder. Or, before being experienced enough to be a great novelist (it takes time in most of writers - look at Alasteir Reynolds' career for a recent example), find more lucrative ways to explore your skills. You may feel better if - one way or another - writing was your "way to earn a living."

[Isolde]

How often do you write, knivesout? Are you involved in any sort of written RPG?

[The Master™]

Dude, I'm NO GOOD... Can't come up with a decent idea... Character development is crap... Can't stay on a thread, so go off at a tangent and get lost...

I can write sentences, but they don't flow... My paragraphs are pointless...

If you are better than that, you must be good...

[Circus Cranium]

I can offer 2 bits of advice I feel strongly about, and you can either ponder or ignore them, but they help me with my writing, and people seem to enjoy it.

First, never forget that you're painting a picture for someone else. Sure, you have to get inside your own head to write, but always be conscious that you're telling a story to someone...is it coming across clearly?

Second, you can't possibly tell a story with characters and dialogue, if you don't know your characters personally. This is something you need to do before you really start to write. Sure, come up with your plot lines, but before you really start hammering it out, take some time and think about these characters; what do they look like, what do they think, what's their motivation...do they remind you of anyone you know?

You're the puppet master, but first you have to design your puppets. Once you do that it's a lot easier to play with them, and it will come off as more real and clear to your reader.

[Space Monkey]

My first novel effort, I scrapped it at ninety thousand words. During that 90k marathon, I learned lots about grammar, style, all the BS that goes with writing, but I forgot THE primary rule.

Before all else, we write to entertain.

Perfection in every other aspect is irrelevant if your stories will bore a glass eye to sleep.

Now prior to writing anything, I need to conceive the ideas that titillate me and energize me enough to continue. 'What would you do if...' or "What do you think would happen if..." or "What is the most insane thing you can think of..."

Then I start developing the idea, keeping that freedom and omnipotence in mind. Check out Deepak Chopra's 'Law of pure potentiality'. That nails it right there.

As for your not knowing people mindset - you are a person, so write it from your own perspective and observations. First draft, get the cool, entertaining story down, even though it might be full of holes. Make it like a film that you would love to watch. Use the language in a way that makes you go 'Wow, I'm really cool and smart.' Exploit your intelligence, all focussed on that one golden thing - entertainment. Once I realised I was free to use words in any way I chose, to tell any story I wanted, my writing became so much better.
I stopped trying to write the way I thought writers wrote and started using my own assets.

Once the skeleton is down, you can tidy up the plot, fill in holes etc, but you can also then concentrate on making it even cooler and more smart/funny/entertaining. I keep using that E word, but that really is the touchstone.

I firmly believe that if you have the capacity to BE entertained, you have the ability to entertain. Just a matter of application, figuring out what tickles you, figuring out the elements of a story that makes it great. Taking notice, playing with words, playing with perspectives, whatever.
But in the forefront of my mind, all the time without fail, is the question: Is it boring? If I read this, would I be entertained?

I probably spend about ten times the effort thinking about the story than I do writing it. Once the ideas are straight, the concepts are adequately amusing/fun/cool, then the words aren't too much of a problem.

[Tsujigiri]

I'd agree with Circus Cranium & Space Monkey, I start a story or a book with a plot in mind, but very quickly the characters come alive and then I find that I'm creating the world around them while they interact naturally and so I end up writing in order to find out just what the hell they are going to do next.

I've had good reviews on my fiction and I'm told my characters tend to be very alive because of this.
Now I just need to get more than just stories and non-fiction published

If ound that having a close circle of people that you trust with your work, not trust to be nice and polite, but trust not to post it somewhere on the net or steal ideas.....can be very helpful.

I am damn sure that some of the people who have been on this forum since day 1 would fall into that category for you.

[Circus Cranium]

That's a very good suggestion; not sure if Knives Out already has his posse of readers, but if not, they're extremely helpful. Of course they have to actually have half a brain and be able to give intelligent, constructive criticism. But on the flip side, stay away from people that will just stroke you and tell you it's great without offering any detail.

I have some that I bounce my work off every time, and they're not afraid to beat me up a little; but since 85 percent of the time I end up agreeing with their comments (after getting over wanting to strangle them), I trust their opinion.

[red_temple]

I'll agree as well. There's no better way to improve your writing than to have someone beat it up a bit. It's rare to find people who are willing to do this (and do it well), but once you do you'll be amazed to see how well rounded your prose becomes.

[tonic]

Well, I had the same problem. When I started writing (which wasn't that long ago) I had never written a single word creatively. I didn't know how to do it. I realized I had some talent because my friends liked what they were reading but I felt like something was missing. I got tips from a few friends here and there, what to do, what not, but the best piece of advice I got was listen to how other people talk. Now it may not seem like a big thing but I started to do that, I listened to the way I spoke in certain situations and when I had to write I wrote they way I talked. The most "REAL" way to me. It came out natural, and although most of what was written was slang, the reader understood because it sounded natural.

For fleshing out characters, once again I would do the same thing. Make the character think the same as you do, get their ideas on level with yours. Try and make their thinking natural, the way you would.

When I first sent in a story I thought it was rubbish and it probably was. Mind this was for my school but my teacher edited and he told me my mistakes. He's been published so I took what he said very seriously. I waited a few days because I realized I can edit it better when I've had time away from it and I rewrote most of it. I made it so that the character was on level with me, I put the way I thought on paper and not only did it seem natural but it flowed together better then I could have hoped.

Everyone has different ways of coming up with ideas, mine usually come out of the blue and from there I think of the oddest way to manipulate that idea. My first short story was about these dreams I was having that were reccurring and were annoying the hell out of me. So I took that idea and I made the character haunted by his dreams, in the end the dream came true and it all worked because I used to the way I felt and it seemed natural. Put yourself in the characters shoes, don't only be the brain behind your creation, be your creation.

If all of this fails I would try writing something in first person. It's the best way for it to seem natural, start writing I this and I that to get used to the character and go from there. I hope I helped.

[knivesout]

Thanks people. By the way, for what it's worth, I actually earn a living writing. But that's ad stuff, not real writing. Life is bizarre. And then you die.

[Circus Cranium]

lol It's real writing. And not everyone can do both nonfic and fiction, so consider yourself a multi-faceted dude.

[Teresa Edgerton]

What you can do about the problem sort of depends on what it is your characters seem to be lacking.

Are they re-active rather than active? That is, do they never initiate any of the events in the story, but just go along with the flow?

Are they too perfect? Do they never make mistakes? Or are they perpetual victims -- if they do make mistakes, neither you, the author, or the character him/herself acknowledges or takes responsibility for them?

Do they lack depth? Do they come across as single-minded, without any conflicting desires or goals? Or do they spend so much time dithering over what they should do that they hardly ever get anything done? Do they lack any history? Or do you spend so much time describing their history that you never get around to letting them do anything interesting in the present?

Are their actions believable -- or do they spend the whole story working extra hard to make all your beautiful ideas come to fruition?

Do they all sound and act alike -- speaking only with your voice, endlessly pursuing your personal agendas?

Sometimes just identifying the problem leads the way to a cure.