ASoFaI - "It's all sex and death"

[LadyFel]

There are only four female PoV's in the books so far...Catelyn, Arya, Sansa and Dany...I think he's going to drop Catelyn for obvious reasons , Cersei is in the next book definitely, but I think the male PoV's are more numerous...Tyrion, Eddard (ex), Bran, Jon, Davos, Jaime, Theon...

[knivesout]

I don't want to insult you're girlfriend's taste in books, Brian, but aSoIaF is so far above LeGuin quality wise it may be difficult to adapt, like you said

I am sorry to be this blunt, but that is absolute errant rubish. Martin may well be the best writer in epic fantasy today (hardly a sterling achievement), but he is a pygmy with a typewriter compared to the authoress of works like The Disposessed, The Left Hand of Darkness, The Word for World is Forest and that most excellent of short stories, The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas. I'm sorry, a knack for complications and the ability to write better than NoGoodkind still don't place him in LeGuin's league. Uh-huh. LeGuin has wisdom, and something to say about the human condition.

[Rane Longfox]

Fair enough JP. I personally hated LeGuin with a passion. I thought the writing was horrible, but I'm perfectly prepared to accept I may be in the minority with that opinion

[Raven]

Hmm, I don't know if I would rate LeGuin above or below Martin. Martin is my personal fave, but I think they're probably both around the same level in terms of good writing.

'Pygmy with a typewriter' in comparison to LeGuin? That's as much errant rubbish as saying Martin is hugely better than LeGuin, IMO. Two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts do.

Martin has said that he struggles to write the younger POVs, but he has never admitted to any difficulty with the female POVs. True, there are fewer of them. But there are also many well-written and/or important female non-POV characters - Melisandre, Brienne, the Queen of Thorns, Margaery, Selyse, Shireen, Lysa, Jeyne Westerling, Asha Greyjoy, Myrcella, Ellaria Sand, Ygritte, Mya Stone, Mirri Maz Duur, Dalla, and Old Nan, for example. (At least two of those will almost certainly be POVs in the next book, by the way.)

Martin has also hinted that we are likely to see more important female characters introduced - Genna Frey, the Sand Snakes, and Arianne Martell are all likely to feature. And then there are the female characters who don't appear, but cast a shadow over events - Joanna Lannister, Ashara Dayne, and Lyanna Stark, for example.

And hi to Brood! (it's mormont from SE, by the way).

[Rane Longfox]

Heya mormont nice to see you again, I'm afraid I've been less than punctual in my monthly visit to SE of late

Welcome to the network too, though I imagine you've had that already

[Jinglehopper]

Originally Posted by knivesout

LeGuin has wisdom, and something to say about the human condition.

I've never read LeGuin but the implied point in this statement is that Martin does not have wisdom and/or something to say about the human condition.

I heartily disagree, I've learned more about people and relationships, the principle of honor and duty, and the wisdom of who is fit to rule, while reading GRRM than I have from any other fantasy series. He has more to say than you realize.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by caladanbrood

I don't want to insult you're girlfriend's taste in books, Brian, but aSoIaF is so far above LeGuin quality wise it may be difficult to adapt, like you said

Nah, she just finds it very jarring jumping between writing styles. Usually takes her quite a few chapters to settle into the narrative style. I figure it's not too uncommon when you read books back to back.

[Rane Longfox]

Ah, ok. Thats fair enough

[Jinglehopper]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Nah, she just finds it very jarring jumping between writing styles. Usually takes her quite a few chapters to settle into the narrative style. I figure it's not too uncommon when you read books back to back.

Yeah, that same phenomenon happens to me quite often. Going from Tom Robbins to Robin Hobb to Tad Williams and now Nicolai Gogol is quite jarring. That's why it's always good to reread a series right before the next volume comes out. You'll be right in line with that writer's style and ready to enjoy the book to its fullest.

[Rahl Windsong]

I think it is more like the "sex and death" show the reader exactly how harsh this setting is, and there is no better way to convey that except through real human emotion. Sex and death bring instinctive emotion to any human being and only a true master, such as Martin, can use that to their advantage so it does not seem to be there just to sell the books.

Few writers have ever been able to make me cry from reading their stories, Martin is one of them, and Robin Hobb is another.

Sincerely,

Rahl Windsong

[I, Brian]

Hi Rahl Windsong, and welcome to the chronicles network.

She still complains that it is very masculine, but she's asked me to order the third volume, so even I'll have to catch up now.

[LadyFel]

Tsk, tsk, Brian, still not read it?

[I, Brian]

Ordered 3 a couple of hours ago.

[Rahl Windsong]

The problem I had when I read A Clash of Kings was that A Storm of Swords was not even near completed when I was finished. So like A feast for Crows I had to wait patiently for the next part, and have again been waiting...not so patiently for the 4th!

The only thing I can take comfort in, as I wait, is the 1300+ pages of goodness that I know already exsist! By the way would anyone know what 1300+ pages of final draft would be in the published book? Or perhaps more to the right number of 1500+ by the time he is done with it. How long would the book itself be once published? Speculation of course!

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by a|one

ASoIaF is as you say, more based on the relationships between characters than plot or "quest". But why would this mean it is more appealing to one gender/age than to another? Everyone has relationships and so everyone can relate.

I think what is meant here is that a "quest" plotline is more engaging for younger audiences, for the most part because of attention spans and the fact that many younger people's lives aren't usually involved in thoughtful and deep relationships that most adults come to know and relate to. Naturally, there are some exceptions in both cases. My brother first read AGoT at age eleven, and my dad just read it at 57- both loved it. I suppose the nature of the reader comes into play as well.

As for the series being "all sex and death," why yes, it is. One more reason to love it. A quick look at history and life reveals that much of our past and present revolves around sex and death. Just take a look at any newspaper and that's pretty much standard on the front page. But the lovely thing about GRRM is that he encompasses all of the aspects of life- not just sex and death, but also pain, sorrow, betrayal, grief, loss, triumph, love (not the sappy kind, but the real kind), and all of the weaknesses and strengths that are driving forces in our lives. Sometimes lighter reading is fun, I agree. But for the most part, I suppose what I love the most about GRRM is that I can relate not only to his characters' personalities, but more importantly to what they feel.