| |||||||
| Critiques Post your writing here for critique and constructive criticism |
| |
![]() |
| | Thread Tools | Rate Thread |
| | #1 (permalink) | |
| weaver of the unseen Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 669
| CotM v5 Right, don't know if its right thing to do, but after reading some of the comments on what's worse sff, people mentioned Tolkien and how he used two pages to describe flaura and fauna in the Helm's Deep. Therefore, is this sort of description wrong. Alternatively, as Mister Graham asked, I've been trying to give even wider picture on what happened and how's the world has changed. Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #2 (permalink) | ||||||||
| Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
| My .02 cents on detail in writing and my comments below... I used to write endless pages of description too. At my best and worst, I once devoted 1500 words to a fellow performing a jump kick. Such antics didn’t make me very popular with my readers. It’s utterly impossible to describe every single thing within a given scene. Though there are a finite number of objects to describe, there are an infinite number of ways to describe them, and many more details a writer can get lost in. It’s the writer’s job to figure out which are the most important to the reader to build the scene/setting/object If it’s the writer’s preference, the description can go on at great length, but the prose had better be bulletproof, frighteningly beautiful and full of meaning. But even then, the readers will begin to notice, the details will be harder to keep track of, and the momentum of the story will grind to a haunt. The writer would need approach detail the same way she/he would approach editing a sentence or an entire piece: get everything down, understand what is absolutely necessary to the scene (What is most important to the scene? What must the reader know?), then cut the excess fat. If the description is still long, then find a way to keep the narrative moving. This might be as simple as keeping the character physically moving through the setting, or it perhaps breaking up action/interaction between the characters as the description is taking place. Almost always, I’d aim for a natural effect that would keep the reader’s mind on the character—I as the writer would try my best to remain invisible. My current goal as a writer is to capture the beautiful things that dancers do with their bodies. Just saying that they dance beautifully won't do them justice. Catologing every single movement with words won't do anyone justice either, especially my readers. I'll have to take the moment that moves me the most, that flash of brilliance and beauty and bring that and that alone to the reader. The same goes with details and description in writing. The prose could be better in places, but I really don’t see overuse of description anywhere. I like a lot of the details actually. Quote:
(2) rubble (3) Very nice piece of description. It's compact, and it drives home the point that some great disaster has occurred and that quite a bit of time has passed since. "Defunct Dinosaurs" bothers me though. It's trying to hard. How about fossils? (4) lying... The objects are doing the lying, unless you decide to write in a bit about how some mysterious disaster or the hands of time had layed them there. Quote:
Quote:
(6) mutated: Redundant; get rid of it. The following sentence illustrates the point perfectly. (7) Revise this sentence slightly. The first clause leave me hanging. "Their skin and hooves were covered in thick scales, and some had horns on their heads." Quote:
(9) "if he ever got back to..." The tone fits the voice of this peice much better (10) "world in the future would change." The apocolypse has happened, we blew it up, mutant horses roam the earth! This line isn't strong enough to convey that or what Tom might be feeling. Try "he could prove how messed up things are going to get." (11) "Barret owned everything he had brought along" (12) Get back to... (13) Revise this sentence. It lacks punch. However drains the life out of it. Try "Although he was in no shape for any of that. He'd be a dead man if he went back now." Quote:
(15) Our sky is still blue after all that's happened? Unless we need to know the sky is blue, then omit the color of the sky, or end the sentence at "thousands of meters up." Either that or add some weight to the detail, maybe something such as Tom's feelings about the sky still being blue. Quote:
(16) Omit. Verbal excess. (17) Revise. Could potentially sound silly (So the elevators lied down on their sides as they shuttled?) Try "Elevators shuttled up and down the building's sides..." Quote:
(19) The first two sentences are weak. This is life and death and Tom has only has two real options - one of them being death. Be brief. The description goes stale here. You can bring this to life by mixing in the some plot. Try "Tom needed a way in: his options were few. He couldn't see another station outside the tower, and he didn't have a hopper." (20) "Therefore..." Again, this is life and death. Therefore just isn't lively enough to carry that kind of weight. Try "His best bet was to take Lo-3's hint and try to find the West Gate from the bottom of the foundations. It was either that or the next best option: lie down and die." Quote:
(22) "angrily..." I don't completely get why he would be angry. It's the kind of anger that makes one want to go on living? Find a better adjective or get rid of it. "Glared" conveys the feeling enough. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>(23) "glared at" This is interesting. My reflexes tell me you need | ||||||||
| | |
| | #3 (permalink) | |
| weaver of the unseen Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 669
| Re: CotM v5 I see what you mean. Thanks for the corrections. Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #4 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 38
| Re: CotM v5 I am new hear so I am a bit hesitant about jumping in on something that may have already been covered. I do have a question though, why is this all written in third person? I feel a bit awkward reading about how someone is feeling and wht they are thinking from that POV, it makes more sense to do it in first. On the sky, while we don't know the exact results of a massive nuclear war, Chernobyl is not what you should use as an exemplar. Meltdowns might result in radiation clouds, but there was no accompanying explosion to lift any dust into the atmosphere. Krakatoa caused a dust cloud that blacked the immediate area for over 2 days, and the resulting dust cloud managed to entirely encirlce the Earth within 2 weeks. The resulting displays at sunrise and sunset were said to be very imprssive. That aftermath of a nuclear war would be similar to this, and would last for a varying amount of time depending upon atmospheric and other factors. I would at least include more spectacular sunrise/sunsets in my stroy line for quite a while. As for descriptive prose, if there is a hard and fast rule I don't know it. If I am deep in a rain forest and need to know what flora/fauna is dangerous it needs to be more descriptive. On the other hand if I am in the same setting all all that matters is that Mark XXV Bolo that is tracking me it doesn't matter as much. I think you see my point. I hope you take this part in the spirit I intend it, but your prose reads like it was wiritten by someone who learned English as a second laguage. Let me take one paragrah and show you what I mean. Quote:
Quote:
| ||
| | |
| | #5 (permalink) |
| Fantasy Author Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 161
| Re: CotM v5 Okay I am going to hit on the second post, since the first was already done. Tom sat down on a rusted bench in Hyde Park to catch a breath, and warm himself in the afternoon sun. The Bayswater Road had become (an?) impossible traverse at front of the Lancaster Gate Station, where the Lancaster hotel had fallen on top of the wrecks. It would have taken too long for him to try to find a way through the rubble or even around it. Hyde Park was much more accessible. It was almost empty of wreckage, (I would put a period here, you have stated it was almost empty, leave out, (save for) Now new sentence. A a couple of rusted planes and helicopters (laying) lay about like fossils in the high grass, or hiding under the bushes that had sprouted everywhere. Under the trees the husks of tanks lie scattered, their turrets blown up and toppled over --small animals took them for shelter. Not far from the trees grazed a herd of horses.(,) their Their skins and hooves (were) leave out, it sets tense that is not needed covered with thick scales, and some had horns in their heads. (Tom wished to have some sort of camera with him to capture images from those magnificent beasts.) this whole sentence hits wrong, Tom wished he had a camera, he could capture some images of those magnificient beasts. At least then, he would have some proof to show to people how messed things were going to get. If he ever got back … That looked unlikely. Barrett now owned everything he had brought with him, including the bracelet. (Tom) if he is the main character of this part you don't have to keep using his name, couldn’t figure a way to get it back, not unless he wanted to die. But then again, maybe that wasn’t such a bad idea. Everyone he had known was already dead, including Jefferson - his last best friend. Tom shivered as the opaque shadow of LSN tower fell upon him. He looked up and wondered how he would get in. The tower reached thousands of meters up in the clear blue sky. It looked as unreal as the thousands of blinking stars that littered the sky After all, if he was to believe Barrett words, the people had nuked each other. As far as Tom knew that would have resulted a nuclear winter, which in turn would explain why it was so cold in middle of the summer. It also made sense on why the (whole) can leave out whole, we assume its the whole thing as readers, tower was covered with hexagonally shaped energy fields. Because the builders wouldn’t have placed them to prevent birds flying to smear the place with their faeces(feces). The foundation was one solid structure that rose hundreds of meters up before it started to split in hundreds, probably thousands of skyscrapers (that competed from rest of the space) for the rest of the space?. (Elevators on sides of the building constantly shuttled up and down, carrying people from one floor to another, stopping in between to release passengers on the platform gardens. ) Something hits wrong here, and it might just be me, but, Elevators on the sides of the buildings constantly shuffled between floors carrying people. They also stopped in between to release passengers onto the platform gardens It looked, as there were only couple of ways in it. Two of the options (could remove this part) were out from his reach as Tom couldn’t see there being a monorail station outside the tower, nor (didn’t) did he posses one of hoppers to fly in the space docks. The only way he saw was to follow Lo-3 hint and try to find the West Gate from the bottom of foundations. It was either that or the next best option: lie down and die. ‘At least I wouldn’t have to suffer anymore,’ (Tom thought as he lowered his gaze to stare the ruins.) show not tell, Tom thought, lowering his gaze, staring at the ruins) He coughed a couple of times as he stretched out on the bench and closed his eyes. The world didn't quiet down though. The crickets seemed to chirp even louder, while he heard in the distance the neighs of the horses and the rumble of their hooves. ‘The world didn’t give up,’ Tom thought. ‘The animals survived even when we ****** everything up.’ He stood up and glared herd racing towards the Speakers Corners. ‘Why didn’t they? It would be better for them…’ He watched as two young cups played with each other. ‘Well, I guess they’re happy. You aren’t any worse off then them. There’s a cure for this disease. I just have to get in and they’ll give it to me.’ ... It is good and I liked it, I liked that you didnt say what had happened and leave that for later. Its a good hook. Work on what I wrote and remember that could just be me and my opinion and not mean a thing lol |
| | |
| | #6 (permalink) |
| He who dares wins Rodney! Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 182
| Re: CotM v5 I’m inexperienced as a critiquer, this is my first so here I go! Words I think should be deleted And words I think should be added I’ve then posted a clean version with all alterations Tom sat down on a rusted bench in Hyde Park to catch his(a) breath, and warm himself in the afternoon sun. The Bayswater Road had become impossible to traverse (at)in front of the Lancaster Gate Station, where the (Lancaster) hotel had collapsed (fallen) on top of the wrecks. It would have taken too long for him to try to find a way through the chaos (rumble - is this the right word…should it be) or even around it. The (Hyde not needed) Park was much more accessible. It was almost empty of wreckage, save for a couple of rusted planes and helicopters lying(laying) like defunct dinosaurs in the overgrowth( too much description delete - high grass, or hiding under the bushes that had sprouted everywhere.) There were even couple of battle tanks under the trees, blown up turrets on their side, providing shelter for the small animals. Not far from the trees grazed a herd of mutated horses. Their skins and hooves covered with thick scales, and few of them had long horns on their heads. Tom wished(wishes) that he’d had(he would havesome sort of – spoils flow) a camera to capture (images from-we know what a camera does - spoils flow) those magnificent beasts. At least then, if he’d(he would) ever get back to his own time, he could prove that the world in the future would change. But that was it, he couldn’t. Barrett owned (now) everything he’d(have had) brought with him, including the bracelet. He’d(He would) have to get it back and learn to use it if he wanted to get back to(in) his own time. However, there was no way for him to do so in the condition he was in. He would (only) be killed if he went(wouldgo) back now. Tom looked at the tower and wondered (on) how he could (would) get in. The tower reached thousands of meters up in the blue sky. The whole structure was covered with hexagonally shaped energy fields. (It looked that) No birds could fly(flew) around or tried to sit on the small ledges. The foundation was one solid structure that rose hundreds of meters up before it started to split in hundreds, probably thousands of skyscrapers that competed from rest of the space. Elevators on their sides constantly shuttled up and down, carrying people from one floor to another, stopping in between to release passengers on the platform gardens. (It look as t)There were only a couple of ways in it. Two of the entrances(options) were out of(from) his reach as he couldn’t see there being a station outside the tower, nor did(didn’t) he have one of hoppers. Therefore the only way in was to follow Lo-3’s hint and try to find the West Gate from the bottom of the foundations. Alternatively, maybe (then) he could just lay down and die. ‘At least I wouldn’t have to suffer anymore,’ Tom thought as he lowered his gaze to stare the ruins. He coughed a couple of times as he stretched out on the bench and closed his eyes. The world around him didn’t go quiet. (down). Instead, it seemed that the crickets chirped even louder, while in the distance he heard trampling of (the) hooves and neighs of (the) horses. ‘The world didn’t give up,’ Tom guessed.(thought – repetitive) ‘The animals survived even when we ****** everything up.’ He stood up and (angrily) glared at the herd which raced(racing) towards (the) Speakers Corner. (s). ‘Why didn’t they? It would be better for them…’ He watched as two young (cups)cubs played with each other. ‘Well, I guess they’re happy. So why wouldn’t you. Yeah, why should you give up Tommy boy. You aren’t any worse than(of then) them. There’s a cure for this disease. I just have to get in and they’ll give it to me.’ ... THIS IS THE CLEAN VERSION Tom sat down on a rusted bench in Hyde Park to catch his breath, and warm himself in the afternoon sun. The Bayswater Road had become impossible to traverse in front of the Lancaster Gate Station, where the hotel had collapsed on top of the wrecks. It would have taken too long for him to try to find a way through the chaos or even around it. The Park was much more accessible. It was almost empty of wreckage, save for a couple of rusted planes and helicopters lying like defunct dinosaurs in the overgrowth. There were even a couple of battle tanks under the trees, blown up turrets on their side, providing shelter for the small animals. Not far from the trees grazed a herd of mutated horses. Their skins and hooves covered with thick scales, and few of them had long horns on their heads. Tom wished that he’d had a camera to capture those magnificent beasts. At least then, if he’d ever get back to his own time, he could prove that the world in the future would change. But that was it, he couldn’t. Barrett owned everything he’d brought with him, including the bracelet. He’d have to get it back and learn to use it if he wanted to get back to his own time. However, there was no way for him to do so in the condition he was in. He would be killed if he went back now. Tom looked at the tower and wondered how he could get in. The tower reached thousands of meters up in the blue sky. The whole structure was covered with hexagonally shaped energy fields. No birds could fly around or tried to sit on the small ledges. The foundation was one solid structure that rose hundreds of meters up before it started to split in hundreds, probably thousands of skyscrapers that competed from rest of the space. Elevators on their sides constantly shuttled up and down, carrying people from one floor to another, stopping in between to release passengers on the platform gardens. There were only a couple of ways in it. Two of the entrances were out of his reach as he couldn’t see there being a station outside the tower, nor did he have one of hoppers. Therefore the only way in was to follow Lo-3’s hint and try to find the West Gate from the bottom of the foundations. Alternatively, maybe he could just lay down and die. ‘At least I wouldn’t have to suffer anymore,’ Tom thought as he lowered his gaze to stare the ruins. He coughed a couple of times as he stretched out on the bench and closed his eyes. The world around him didn’t go quiet. Instead, it seemed that the crickets chirped even louder, while in the distance he heard trampling of hooves and neighs of horses. ‘The world didn’t give up,’ Tom guessed. ‘The animals survived even when we ****** everything up.’ He stood up and glared at the herd which raced towards Speakers Corner. ‘Why didn’t they? It would be better for them…’ He watched as two young cubs played with each other. ‘Well, I guess they’re happy. So why wouldn’t you. Yeah, why should you give up Tommy boy. You aren’t any worse than them. There’s a cure for this disease. I just have to get in and they’ll give it to me.’ ... |
| | |
| | #8 (permalink) |
| He who dares wins Rodney! Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 182
| Re: CotM v5 By the way I critiqued the original, and I didnt read the other comments as I didnt want them to influence my thinking. My brain is the size of a peanut, so it would be silly to overload it! |
| | |
| | #9 (permalink) | |
| He who dares wins Rodney! Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 182
| Re: CotM v5 Quote:
He who dares wins CTG...onwards! | |
| | |
| | #10 (permalink) | |
| Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 38
| Re: CotM v5 Quote:
The map of Finnish is very different than the map of English. Do not let my map reading ability discourage you. You read the map of English well enough to write, and even cause most to miss your lack. That tells you more than the fact that I saw it. | |
| | |
| | #11 (permalink) |
| Breakfast of choice Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 111
| Re: CotM v5 CTG, you are way too hard on yourself . If you think you've disappointed us then you're missing the purpose of this forum; to learn from one's mistakes and not let them beat us down. ![]() On what you've written; I think it's a wonderful bit. The descriptions are great without being overblown and I like the protagonist (or at least can relate to him even though I know he is a scumbag ) and enjoy being in his head at this moment of his life. The lack of description of his illness I'm guessing is due to it being in a different part of the chapter. I'll do a good critique once you get the newest, most cleaned up version up.@QSR Joshua; welcome to the forums and Beast always was my favorite of the X-Men |
| | |
| | #12 (permalink) |
| Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 185
| Re: CotM v5 Good hook, even more so because I know this area. Blimey, so many versions, difficult to know which one to go for: p'raps I'll just add to Gary's.... Looks like a pretty good job has been done already, and I've only got a coupla nitpicks.......... providing shelter for the small animals Drop 'the' No birds could fly around or tried to sit on the small ledges Could fly around what? And a small mix of tenses, could/tried. Birds could not fly around them, or alight on the small ledges? skyscrapers that competed from rest of the space Uncertain here if they are competing FOR the rest of the space, or if the tower actually stretches into space..... carrying people from one floor to another, stopping in between to release passengers on the platform gardens. Horribly small nitpick this, but shouldn't they stop at the floors, or are the platform gardens between floors? There were only a couple of ways in it Either 'a couple of ways in' or 'a couple of ways into it' I guess they’re happy. So why wouldn’t you. Yeah, why should you give up Tommy boy So why wouldn't you what? There's a word missing here: 'be'. Or preferably 'why can't you be?' and you're missing a few question marks at the end of the sentences. And a comma after 'up' I just have to get in and they’ll give it to me You've switched from second person to first, and it detracts from his impersonal thinking about himself. 'You only have to get in and they'll give it to you free' might be better. I've prolly repeated what others have said, sorry for that! The fact that most of our critiquing is grammar shows you've got something dead on target, with the storyt ctg. Good stuff |
| | |
| | #13 (permalink) | |
| weaver of the unseen Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 669
| Re: CotM v5 Waffles, Boneman, Gary, thank you. Boneman, on the issue of the switch from first to second. I'm only going by what I know about my own thinking and how I can reflect it in a character. I do talk myself in first and second person. Sometime my mind is full images that roll forward making a movie, and I guess you could call it imagination. The LSN colony is two and half kilometers tall, so it won't go all the way up to the space. But I cannot say it in Tom's character, as he doesn't know. He just sees it going up hundreds of meters. In same time, he doesn't understand that it's the forcefields. But on the issue of the platform gardens, I imagine them being in between and on top of the buildings. It's terribly difficult to write out, so I left it as it is. Waffles, here you go. Have fun. Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #14 (permalink) | |||||||||||
| Breakfast of choice Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 111
| Re: CotM v5 Love the story and the descriptions so I mostly want to help with your English. Changes marked in red. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
| |||||||||||
| | |