How late is too late to introduce the villain?

[Aorrowan]

So i have been writing madly with every spare moment of my time lately. Hurray!
But an alarming thought has come to me....since i have the general idea of my plot planned out (which, i might add...now that i have actually gotten started has been a great help to keep me on track, i have a nasty tendancy to wander, but see? I digress)... anyway, i realized that my villain is not introduced until what will likely be halfway through my story. There are allusions to the "related evil" which i have already, and will be, adding as i go, but is that enough? Can there be a story without an identified villain from the beginning?

[David Gullen]

I don;t see why not - there are no laws for writing, only rules. I could imagine a story working that way, though it may not be so easy as introducing the villain earlier on.

One important thing to consider is why there is the delay. One writing rule I like a lot is 'Tell the reader everything' (attrib. Kurt Vonnegut), so I would ask yourself whether you are deliberately concealing the villain from the reader so you can have a 'Tada! See how clever I am!' moment, or if the introduction is genuinely in the correct place.

Another rule I like is 'Start in the middle of things' or 'Start as close to the end as possible' so it may be that you have actually begun too far forward and have been writing yourself into the story in the first chapter or two.

Don;t be afraid of letting your plot change either - I think having a plot plan is a great idea, but like writing rules it is only a set of guidelines and you can change them.

[Sapheron]

By identify do you mean explain who it is? The main villain in a lot of works isn't really shown until they end. They work behind the scenes, so to speak. If half way through is when it makes sense for the villain to be shown, then that is when it should be. If your story would be better off with him/her/it appearing earlier, then they should do.

Any question of what you should do when writing a story can basically be summed up in two words:

It depends.

[goldhawk]

You should name your major characters the first time they are mentioned. Referring to your Villain as "related evil" deprives your readers from having a focus for their displeasure. They want to boo the bad guy and not having a name to go with their catcalls lessens their force.

[WafflesToo]

I think it's been asked already but when you say 'introduce' do you mean mentioned? Or physically given a "hello" moment.

In the original Legend of Zelda, Ganon's name was dropped thoughout the entire game. But you never actually meet him until the final showdown.

Other works have had elaborate gambits going with party A pulling party B's strings or other such. The TV show "Heroes" did that a few times and "Mission Impossible" make a living at never letting you know who the real villain is.

And who could forget "Alias"? Did we ever find out who it was pulling the strings?

[goldhawk]

In the LotR, Sauron is named as the ancient evil early in the book (Chapter 2, The Shadow of the Past) but the only major character that comes face-to-face with him is Gollum. Indeed, you never truly learn who and what Sauron really is until you read The Silmarillion.

[Aorrowan]

Thanks guys, In reading over my original post, i think i wasn't all that clear...i suppose that happens when i try to write this stuff at 2am!!
There are definitely references to a "bad guy" throughout. I thought i'd try a different approach and am writing in 1st person, which is new to me, but seems to be working ok so far. So the POV character is not going to know who the "bad guy" is right away, which is not big stretch from any other story, i guess. She doesn't meet him until what will probably be halfway through, and doesn't realize that he is the "bad guy" until a series of events provides her insight into his character.

[WafflesToo]

Heh, that sounds interesting. "Oh honey, these flowers are wonderful. And guess what else I found out today, you're actually Sauron Lord of Darkness..."

[goldhawk]

Ah, the opposite of "Luke, I am your father."

[chopper]

well, with that in mind, it all depends on how far the story can credibly stretch before you absolutely have to reveal the guy as the big bad. i've got a tale that depends on the reader having to interpret things from one particular character's viewpoint, thus kind of hiding the motivations of every other character in the book. gives a lot of scope for playing "hide the queen" with the Big Bad.

[tangaloomababe]

I would think that a villian could even wait to the end of a novel, someone who appears to be nice but turn out to be the bad guy, it would make for a nice twist and leave your readers guessing.

[Writers Blocked]

Originally Posted by tangaloomababe

I would think that a villian could even wait to the end of a novel, someone who appears to be nice but turn out to be the bad guy, it would make for a nice twist and leave your readers guessing.

But in your example the character has been introduced. It is a good plot twist but it's not exactly the introduction of a new character. But you have to be careful not to let your reader get ahead of yourself. The ending of Usual Suspects, for example, was ruined for me for the simple fact that it felt too late in the movie to introduce a new actor for the big reveal.

On the other hand, it worked well in Kill Bill... I feel a little bad that my examples aren't literary in nature, but sometimes the simple structure of most movies it a good way to give examples.

[Malloriel]

Originally Posted by goldhawk

You should name your major characters the first time they are mentioned. Referring to your Villain as "related evil" deprives your readers from having a focus for their displeasure. They want to boo the bad guy and not having a name to go with their catcalls lessens their force.

A good practice to be sure, but it does away with any sense of mystery. Unless, of course, you name the big bad the first time you meet him, yet don't reveal that he IS the big bad. Allusions and hints as to who or what it is creates a delicious subterfuge if done correctly, so that the main character, who knows of certain evils, we'll say, and has decided to shut the evil down, ends up travelling with the big bad. Perhaps even helping or being helped by, all the while never knowing (thus the reader never fully knowing, but perhaps being given hints as to) the character's true nature and role in the plot. To just have out and be done with it is certainly one route, but I would say definitely not the only, and because of the variety of styles, narrations, and stories to be told, certainly not the best.

I like a little uncertainty with my morning cuppa, so I would say if naming him outright feels awkward to you as the writer, then toss it to the chalky! I know that in one of my (many billions of) stories, I do name the big bad for the pertinent events early on. He's certainly no mystery, but he's also not the true source, which remains hidden and unnamed (currently even to me) for a very, very long time. This may sound ridiculously drawn out, but the "evil", for lack of a better term for the purposes of this thread, is so insidious and well insulated that events that are related to a greater whole go unnoticed as connected, as they happen over a long period of time and are noticed more or less by different characters before they're all drawn together, and which therefore cannot have conclusions drawn about them. So I think if you've got some mystery to add, or there's just no "right" way to introduce the great baddy directly, or even immediately, I say don't try to force it.

As for a focus for their displeasure, yes, I'd agree that a name and a face make it very easy to dump the displeasure at their actions directly on their shoulders, but there's also something to be said about the chill of knowing something was done without quite knowing whodunnit. Assume your readers aren't just raving Fantasy eaters who gobble up any formulaic approach to the genre, but intelligent discerning people, and let them figure things out as they go along, piece by piece, act by act their knowledge base growing. You could consider it a giant flag in the Show vs. Tell argument, even. The reader sees what goes on, and you never come out and say "The Maleficent Fomoriendrel made evil look like chicken soup. It oozed from his every pore and left a slimy trail of chaos in his wake. He slew heroes as heroes slew dragons, he killed 12 babies before breakfast each day, and over taxed at least another dozen villages by noon. In short, he was not the man to invite over for Christmas goose, if you wanted to keep the goose, your house, your children, or your life, as any were just as likely to be taken by midnight." You do, however, show the carnage. The havoc the man leaves behind, and by not giving him a name, you make the reader look over the hero's shoulder every few steps, suspecting anyone and anything if given proper provocation.

So, in short, I'll enjoy your mystery with some nice earl grey tea, cozied up in the massive pillows of my couch with some kind of home-knit Afghan in a terrifying array of colours on hand, and fit the pieces you give me together while overall enjoying the journey.

[goldhawk]

Originally Posted by Malloriel

A good practice to be sure, but it does away with any sense of mystery. Unless, of course, you name the big bad the first time you meet him, yet don't reveal that he IS the big bad.

Well, why isn't your Evil Overlord in his Fortress of Power plotting to Take Over The World? Why is he out slumming it with the peasants? At the very least, he should think up an alias.

"So your name is Satan? Just like that evil dude?"
"Er, yes...yes, it is. 'Just like that evil dude.' That will do nicely."
"Must be a real bummer. You must hate your parents for giving you that name."
"Parents? Ah, yes, parents. Most people have parents, don't they? I shall have to think of something."

[Writers Blocked]

"Hi Senator Palpatine, what have you been up to?"
"Oh you know, busy work at my desk, which is totally necessary."
"I heard there was some bad guy in a cloak planning to become emperor of a deadly aliance, what do you think?"
"Oh, I don't know anything about that... wink wink."
"Why did you just say, 'wink wink?'"