strategy of the feast

[andyn]

Yes it did break but it was due to the fact when Sam used it, he stabbed Small Paul's Mail shirt and "the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool."
So it can,as most wights do not wear iron mail armour. Small Paul was a member of the night watch and hence he wore armour, before he died.

[AryaUnderfoot]

But Sam never used it on a wight and successfully killed it. He only used it on an Other. In addition, I believe Melisandre said something about what weapons they would use in the battle for each particular type of enemy (can't remember if it was in the last Jon chapter in ASoS or the spoiler one for AFFC).

[LadyFel]

But aren't the Wights and the Others basically two names for the same thing? that's the way I saw it...

[AryaUnderfoot]

No, the Others are sentient beings, meaning they think and act accordingly. They are able to transform the dead into wights- in other words, an Other made Small Paul into basically a zombie. But they are two different things. That's one more reason why the Others are so creepy- they can think, they aren't just dead guys shuffling through the snow.

[LadyFel]

You have a point there...But still...if the Others are vulnerable to dragonglass, the zombies they make would be even more so...

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by LadyFel

You have a point there...But still...if the Others are vulnerable to dragonglass, the zombies they make would be even more so...

Not so, LadyFel. The zombies/wights are made of human flesh and can only be killed by fire. The Others are made of something completely different.

[hodor]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

No, the Others are sentient beings, meaning they think and act accordingly. They are able to transform the dead into wights- in other words, an Other made Small Paul into basically a zombie. But they are two different things. That's one more reason why the Others are so creepy- they can think, they aren't just dead guys shuffling through the snow.

Oh Arya... you are sooo cute and sooo smart. However, everytime you say "creepy" I just... erm "blah" out on it. LOL. Others r0x0r darnit and you knowit. The truth is there are two forces we know of where dead are brought back and they both give you the creeps. This, IMHO, will be used to two different characters advantage later on.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Sorry Hodor, I won't use the word "creepy" anymore. I think the Others are cool but they give me the willies. I'm a little baby when it comes to that sort of stuff- I love horror films and will watch them with relish, but when it comes to bedtime I revert to being a little kid again. So there you have it, I confess I'm a big baby. :P

[mercury]

An interesting point hodor. it seams that both roar and the dark one use undead in their service. and adding to that is melsider rites of human sacrifice, giving birth to a shadow, and general fanaticism attached.

My point is - doesn’t it strike you as cold and evil vs. hot and evil. Is there a third, sane option on the religious horizon? Maybe the return of the wire tree worshiping maybe by a high priest named bran?

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by mercury

My point is - doesn’t it strike you as cold and evil vs. hot and evil. Is there a third, sane option on the religious horizon? Maybe the return of the wire tree worshiping maybe by a high priest named bran?

Yes, Mercury, they both strike me as evil- that's something Hodor and I argued about before. I've often wondered if they're two faces of the same god, but then I suppose there wouldn't really be any opposition between them.

I'm not sure if I buy the Bran as a high priest theory, but I do think it likely that the return of the Children of the Forest may be elemental in saving the land from the Cold God and the dangerous fanaticism that Rh'llor seems to inspire.

[mercury]

you baptized it as "bran the high priest theory" - lets talk about it.

jojen stands as speaker to the children of the forest. I guess coldhends as well belongs to this tradition. By my judgment it is more a shamanistic tradition then a hermetic one(like the masters of the citdaile or the un dying of quarth).

Wilders of magical power in such a traditions tent to be priestly - guides of their communities and communicators with the natural spirits.

Bran obviously is going to bring this tradition back to the north, if not to the hole of seven kingdoms, so high priest is a better title then magician in my opinion.




The only question is – is he going to use the methods of melsinder , or (I hope) by self example and teaching.

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by mercury

The only question is – is he going to use the methods of melsinder , or (I hope) by self example and teaching.

Mercury- If Bran does indeed adopt the role of high-priest, I highly doubt that he will use Melisandre's radical methods. The history we have learned of Westeros thus far shows the Children to be quite a bit milder than that. Not to mention, Bran has always been thought of by others as a sweet, gentle boy. I can't see him resorting to killing people outright for their beliefs.

[dr jpj of uk]

dany doesnt have the glass stanis does and i bet there are hords of it some were in the wall but not just that a weapon for the weigts allso. the wall has many hidden aspects. ANd jon could be a stark and get married to dany or be a targarin and get married to dany. who knows other then rr.

[andyn]

Dragonglass can kill wights and others. It did not kill Small Paul because he was wearing armour and glass will shatter when it strikes iron mail.
The night watch of old stored dragonglass becuse of its effectiveness against both wights and Others.
So far in the story it has been used once against a wight and it broke on contact with his Iron mail Shirt.
For those of you who doubt this please re-read the chapter concerning the fight between Sam and the Wight, small Paul and again to quote directly from GRR Martin, the dragonglass knife broke because:
"the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool."
and not because it was a wight.
Melisandre is aware of the importance of Dragonglass, even if Stannis isn't.

[Detritus]

Having just reread all 3 books, for the third time, and finished ASOS last night, I feel I can finally jump in and say something and not just lurk here

The Others can be killed by Dragonglass, and maybe dragonfire too, but the wights can be killed by steel and fire (and crows it seems).

Melisandre says "Necormancy animates these wights, yet they are still only dead flesh. Steel and fire will serve for them. The ones you call the Others are something more." (p855 Samwell)