Inconsistencies

[schpat]

I was just rereading the whole saga, actually got mp3 versions, much easier than rereading. And on my second revisit I noticed two things that are fairly large inconsistencies, what do you guys think?

1) On the way back to KL Robert is telling Ned that he plans to appoint Jamie as Warden of the East, Ned argues that that would be bad because eventually Jamie will inherit CR and be Warden of West, he doesn’t want too much power in one person’s hands. But that’s odd because Jamie is a member of the Kingsguard and unable to inherit, it plays a big part in the plot later on.

2) In the first Jon chapter, after leaving the feast Jon finds Tyrion sitting on a the ledge above a door, Tyrion jumps off spins into a ball, lands lightly on his hands and vaults onto his feet. In later chapters he has a tough enough time barely getting around!

Any comments here guys?

[Ghost of Harrenhal]

Yeah I noticed a few too, including those two.. I didn't think anything of it to be honest. You don't always stay on your original track when you write books the length of Martin's though.

The Tyrion thing could be explained though. As a dwarf, Tyrion might have trouble getting into a high chair or climbing steep steps, depending on his dwarfism I guess, but there is no reason he can't jump and do acrobatics like a normal person. He is deformed, not disabled.

That said, we never again hear of Tyion's acrobatics and it seems quite out of character now, looking back, to hear that he is sitting on a ledge over a door. Seems quite childish in a way.

[Lady of Winterfell]

I had never noticed either of those on my reread (I have only done one to this point). The Tyrion acrobatics strikes me more than the one about Jaime, because it does seem so out of character. We never again see (that I can remember) any sort of resemblence to these kind of acrobatics. We know that Tyrion can fight in battle, but the moves displayed in the Jon chapter are entirely different.

Thanks for pointing those out!

[The Imp]

The first could be easily explained by saying that as King, Robert could get any vow "unsaid" if he ordered/bribed the High Septon to do it. If he wanted it done it would have been done.

The second point is interesting, but not very significant. While it's inconsistent with later descriptions of Tyrion (legs painful, hobbling around, etc) the character becomes SO consistent after this introduction that it's all but forgotten and easily forgiven.

[the smiling weirwood]

Tyrion was injured in battle later on, he makes frequent references to the pains this cause him. I don't know if we see difficulty moving before this, I'll have to check.

[Charming Serpent]

His shoulder and nose are what bothers him from battle. The others are right. I think GRRM wrote what he wrote and then just changed Tyrion as the story progressed not remembering his first scene with him.

As to Jaime; He killed his King, enough said. No one really took his vows seriously after that so I dont think him becoming Warden of Anything would have caused a stir. Tywin himself never acknowledged the fact that Jaime was in the Kingsguard and not his heir to the Rock. At least never in public. And Robert was a drunken oaf who did what he wanted and didnt care at all about what people or the laws had to say.

[Werthead]

The first isn't an error. 'Warden of the West' is not a hereditary title by law but a military position which by tradition is hereditary. The King, however, can appoint whomever he wants to that position. As a Kingsguard Jaime cannot hold lands or bear a title, but he can serve as a general or commander of armies, which is what that position means.

My guess is that Jaime being given the wink and the nod to succeed Tywin as Warden of the West was part of the politicking after the Sack of King's Landing. Tywin was probably keen to keep that title away from Tyrion, even if legally he couldn't stop him becoming Lord of Casterly Rock (although in ASoS we did find out that he planned to stop him doing that as well).

[schpat]

It's true Tyrion becomes so consistant later on that it is almost possible to know exactly how he will react in a given situation.

I just thought that with all the rereading while we wait for ADWD that these inconsistencies would make an interesting NEW topic, and I was hoping that others might have found others.

Don't get me wrong, these issues don't in any way detract from the brilliance of the series!

[Werthead]

The number of inconsistences in the series is pretty small.

There's some entertainers in ACoK turning up at Riverrun who are mentioned precisely once and vanish. GRRM had some stuff in mind for them but didn't have room for them in ASoS, so just dropped it.

People who have early editions of AGoT will see in the appendix that King Viserys II is listed as being Aegon III's son, but later editions changed this to his brother (the UK edition hasn't been changed) after fans pointed out that Aegon IV (Viserys II's son) would be far too young to have as many children as he did and rule for the time period he did.

One horse changed sex and Renly's eyes changed colour between the first two books.

In AGoT the Targaryens are said to have fled the Doom of Valyria, whilst later books have them being on Dragonstone for 100 years before the Doom. GRRM changed this when he re-mapped out the history of the Targaryens in greater detail whilst writing the third and fourth books. GRRM did explain this discrepency by suggesting that the Targaryens are prescient knowledge of the Doom and fled to Dragonstone prematurely, which makes it track.

[Rhaegal]

Your probably right, and I have no knowledge of the anatomy of dwarves, but some of the most acrobatic people i have known have been that way not so much out of raw strength, but out of freakish strength for their size and weight. At least in the upper body, this might be the case for Tyrion.

[Patchface Killa]

Ok, let's see -

1. Tyrion (as it is easier IMO) - I had thought of this one before, but I just assumed that it was mostly his stunted legs that give him such difficulty, and that is consistent. In his first chapter he begins by walking up a lot of stairs in Winterfell, which is very awkward for him. In battle, however, on horseback he notes that his arms are actually quite strong in order to make up for his legs. In that opening he 'vaults' off the thingy (while drunk, mind you) and lands of his hands - his strong arms could have held what little weight he has. But the somersault is a little much - I for one am glad there isn't any more of this sort of thing later on in the series.

2. Jaime - yes, Robert could have renounced the Kingslayer's vows just as Joff did with Selmy, but I don't think that Ned would have even brought this up as it is entriely against his character to even consider taking back a solemn vow. He might have thought about it personally, but he would not have brought it up to Robert because he wouldn't have wanted to put the idea in the raging buck's head . . . unless it was something they had previously discussed on their journey south, which I believe had already taken at least a week by that point. Either way, this doesn't seem to fit with me, but at least it's something minor.

[TK-421]

So, Tyrion's strong arms are perfect for riding a dragon?

[Patchface Killa]

Let's hope so - he certainly is the one most well set up for it in the first book (fireside talk with Jon, examing dragon skulls at KL)