Football (american football to those across the pond!)

[Parson]

Welcome Grizz! The thread is a bit sparse during the off season (but certainly not dead!) During the season we have had a pick the winners each week contest. How so many people living outside the USA could be interested and do so well at it, I'm not sure, but that's the way it is.

[Parson]

I'm so pumped by the draft tomorrow. I want the Vikings to take Matt Kalil. I've been thinking for 2 years that their #1 need was a left tackle. If they make a trade, it had better be for something really, really good.

[Culhwch]

I'm interested in the draft, but I don't have much of a stake in the first two rounds. Gotta hit with that third rounder...

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Parson

I'm so pumped by the draft tomorrow. I want the Vikings to take Matt Kalil. I've been thinking for 2 years that their #1 need was a left tackle. If they make a trade, it had better be for something really, really good.

I must say, considering their job is to protect your multi-million dollar match winner, I'm always surprised that the offensive line seems to be such an afterthought for so many NFL teams.

Admittedly there's a lot more talented defensive ends than I think there ever used to be, and the position seems to becoming much quicker and more athletic than in the past, but a good tackle can give those extra tenths of a second needed for your receiver to come open etc.

Anyway, good luck to you Parson (apart from Week 3, natch) and I hope you get some good starters in the draft. Goodness knows it's going to be another tough season to be a Vikes fan with stadium woes, your star RB coming back from a historically difficult-to-recover-from injury and a very sparse collection of talent on the scoring side of the ball. Playing in a division with the Packers, the Bears and a resurgent Detroit can't help.

But we can take some comfort in the fact Calvin Johnson is the Madden cover star this year so he should contract denge fever or something by Week 2!

Originally Posted by Culhwch

I'm interested in the draft, but I don't have much of a stake in the first two rounds. Gotta hit with that third rounder...

I'm similarly subdued about it all as well Cul. We're low down on the bar because of last year's superb run but we've been a terrible scouting/drafting organisation for a while now - as evidenced by the number of high draft picks we've missed on for so long.

Most mock draft boards have us getting defensive tackles or corner backs but I think we're fairly set there. I'd prefer more offensive line depth, a solid RB or a crunching HB/FB so we can maul teams with a bruising running game & defense. Hey, it only got Pittsburgh 5 NFL titles over the years

The Niners have got quite an interesting schedule this year. We play Parson's division so that'll be four tough matches, and we have NE's division too. I think the Bills are an outside dark horse for the playoffs and who knows what the heck the Jets will do this year - my prediction, Tebow to be the starter by week 10.

We have a tough start in GB & Detroit in the first two games but overall I'm optimistic. Despite his abrasive temperament, I think we have a coach which can take us places.

[Parson]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

Goodness knows it's going to be another tough season to be a Vikes fan with stadium woes, your star RB coming back from a historically difficult-to-recover-from injury and a very sparse collection of talent on the scoring side of the ball. Playing in a division with the Packers, the Bears and a resurgent Detroit can't help.

Ain't that the truth! I think the Vikings could be quite a bit better and still struggle to win 6 games. They have to be decided underdogs in each of their meetings with Green Bay, Detroit, and Chicago. We're just going to have pound those non-division foes, especially week 3.

I'm very pessimistic about the Stadium issue. I don't see the state coming through with the funds to underwrite what the League thinks their fair share of the stadium expense should be. And I think that if nothing gets done in this session, a huge long shot at best, we might have another Minnesota franchise move to LA, like the Lakers did so many years ago. (I don't think that LA Vikings sounds any worse than LA Lakers.)

[Winters_Sorrow]

Originally Posted by Parson

Ain't that the truth! I think the Vikings could be quite a bit better and still struggle to win 6 games. They have to be decided underdogs in each of their meetings with Green Bay, Detroit, and Chicago. We're just going to have pound those non-division foes, especially week 3.

I'm very pessimistic about the Stadium issue. I don't see the state coming through with the funds to underwrite what the League thinks their fair share of the stadium expense should be. And I think that if nothing gets done in this session, a huge long shot at best, we might have another Minnesota franchise move to LA, like the Lakers did so many years ago. (I don't think that LA Vikings sounds any worse than LA Lakers.)

Well most commentators are agreeing that the Vikes played a blinder in this year's draft. Trading down 1 place with the Browns to net their picks and still get what they were supposedly after in the form of Matt Kalil - aka Jeff Saturday. Seriously, the guy is a clone or something!

The Niners confused me a little by taking yet another wide receiver to go with their free agent acquisitions but hopefully they know what they're doing and it's a safety net for the inevitable Randy Moss flop & diva performance I suppose. St Louis seem to be getting tons of draft choices through various trades to, so I can only hope they pick stinkers by the boatload!

It's quite horrifying how monetized the whole system has become though, I saw some stills of the draft choices and one of them had enough jewelry on his person to shame BA from the A-Team! I thought these were supposed to be amateur 'student-athletes'? I remember my years of education being somewhat more frugal!

It makes a mockery of the various 'scandals' where college system coaches and administrators are outed as bribing the best prospects to come play for them. The key lesson seems to be "It's only wrong when you get caught".

The stadium issue may take longer to settle. I haven't been following it closely but surely it's too late to organise prior to next season anyway, so will the Vikes be playing in a local college stadium instead or some neutral venue for their home games? Sadly you could well be right and they might end up moving. I don't think LA is quite as keen on the idea currently as opposed to past years though, only because the financial outlay seems extravagant in a recessionary cycle, which is of course why the State authorities are resisting so fiercely as well no doubt.

There is a settlement to be made of course, but the owners probably need to stick more of their own money into it and being a parson you know the parable about there being more chance of getting blood from a stone than coin from a rich man...

[Parson]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

Well most commentators are agreeing that the Vikes played a blinder in this year's draft. Trading down 1 place with the Browns to net their picks and still get what they were supposedly after in the form of Matt Kalil - aka Jeff Saturday. Seriously, the guy is a clone or something!

Brilliant! I hadn't made the connection but he does have the resemblance.

The Niners confused me a little by taking yet another wide receiver to go with their free agent acquisitions but hopefully they know what they're doing and it's a safety net for the inevitable Randy Moss flop & diva performance I suppose. St Louis seem to be getting tons of draft choices through various trades to, so I can only hope they pick stinkers by the boatload!

Well one can only hope.

It's quite horrifying how monetized the whole system has become though, I saw some stills of the draft choices and one of them had enough jewelry on his person to shame BA from the A-Team! I thought these were supposed to be amateur 'student-athletes'? I remember my years of education being somewhat more frugal!

It makes a mockery of the various 'scandals' where college system coaches and administrators are outed as bribing the best prospects to come play for them. The key lesson seems to be "It's only wrong when you get caught".

My very limited experience with pro caliber athletes coming out of college says that it is insanely easy for their parents to get loans based (whisper this: for their kids) which will be paid off when the boat comes in.

The stadium issue may take longer to settle. I haven't been following it closely but surely it's too late to organise prior to next season anyway, so will the Vikes be playing in a local college stadium instead or some neutral venue for their home games? Sadly you could well be right and they might end up moving. I don't think LA is quite as keen on the idea currently as opposed to past years though, only because the financial outlay seems extravagant in a recessionary cycle, which is of course why the State authorities are resisting so fiercely as well no doubt.

There is a settlement to be made of course, but the owners probably need to stick more of their own money into it and being a parson you know the parable about there being more chance of getting blood from a stone than coin from a rich man...

Money is the name of the game. I'm not sure that either the owner or the state is willing to put a single dime more in. And, unfortunately, I can see both of their points. This leads me to be very pessimistic indeed.

(And I do not know the proverb. It is not biblical and so my obvious store of proverbs cannot be tapped.)

[J-Sun]

Well, no surprises in the very early selections. Congrats to Parson on his team doing a great job, probably best in the 1st round. Sympathies to jo - maybe it'll work out but I question his team. The teams of the rest of the regulars here fell somewhere in between.

For weirdest moves, there's the Browns. Maybe/maybe not swindled by the Vikes, but they got their man. So then they take Weedon at 22? Maybe it'll work out fine but that's way too high.

I like Tampa's picks - if I'm to believe what I read, the Bucs are drafting people who have talent but who also have character, leadership, and winning ways which moves them ahead of some others with maybe more pure raw talent but little else. Imagine that.

For the teams I'm bound to in lifelong slavery or that I do like or want to like, not much to say except that, while Clairborne may work out for Dallas and is a fine abstract pick, it's a questionable pick at a questionable cost for the team. Probably Jerry or the Ryan being meddlesome. Chicago (McClellin, OLB>DE), Pittsburgh (DeCastro, G), and Houston (Mercilus, DE>OLB/DE) did boringly well (Pittsburgh especially got a windfall). Baltimore had no 1st round pick.

Anyway - I don't get as wrapped up in the draft as some do because it's a lot of countin' chickens. There's camp and pre-season games and what ought to always be competition for jobs yet to go and then we'll see how they do this season and in the future. But it's always interesting to learn the actual picks and get a sense of management's quality or lack of it.

[jojajihisc]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

Sympathies to jo - maybe it'll work out but I question his team.

Thanks, and I question them too. Why they didn't go after a receiver after three picks I've no idea - besides QB it's been their biggest need for several years now. Maybe Wilson's a diamond in the rough but the chances aren't good.

[Parson]

Originally Posted by J-Sun

Well, no surprises in the very early selections. Congrats to Parson on his team doing a great job, probably best in the 1st round. Sympathies to jo - maybe it'll work out but I question his team. The teams of the rest of the regulars here fell somewhere in between.

For weirdest moves, there's the Browns. Maybe/maybe not swindled by the Vikes, but they got their man. So then they take Weedon at 22? Maybe it'll work out fine but that's way too high.

I like Tampa's picks - if I'm to believe what I read, the Bucs are drafting people who have talent but who also have character, leadership, and winning ways which moves them ahead of some others with maybe more pure raw talent but little else. Imagine that.

For the teams I'm bound to in lifelong slavery or that I do like or want to like, not much to say except that, while Clairborne may work out for Dallas and is a fine abstract pick, it's a questionable pick at a questionable cost for the team. Probably Jerry or the Ryan being meddlesome. Chicago (McClellin, OLB>DE), Pittsburgh (DeCastro, G), and Houston (Mercilus, DE>OLB/DE) did boringly well (Pittsburgh especially got a windfall). Baltimore had no 1st round pick.

Anyway - I don't get as wrapped up in the draft as some do because it's a lot of countin' chickens. There's camp and pre-season games and what ought to always be competition for jobs yet to go and then we'll see how they do this season and in the future. But it's always interesting to learn the actual picks and get a sense of management's quality or lack of it.

For a guy who does not pay a lot of attention to the draft you seem pretty well informed. I can't say I disagree with anything you say.

There are some who question Minnesota's drafting of the Notre Dame safety in the first round. I would agree with that analysis from a strictly physical point of view (perhaps a little slow) but from what I've heard of the intangibles, team captain, can play linebacker or safety, a holler guy; all make me think that he might be a good choice there. Minnesota's secondary was a decent college secondary last year.

[J-Sun]

Originally Posted by Parson

For a guy who does not pay a lot of attention to the draft you seem pretty well informed.

Thanks, but I just meant I don't follow "mock drafts" or watch the thing on TV or things like that.

Lots of stuff happened in the later rounds but just a couple/three things stick out. I like that the Ravens got their first round pick when they finally got on in the second round. I like that the Redskins reassure me that they're still the Redskins by drafting a QB in the third round after getting RGIII in the first. Not the brightest move, IMO. And it wasn't just Weedon - there seemed to be an awful lot of people going earlier than they should.

Not real thrilled with Dallas' draft but that figures, as I'm not real thrilled with Dallas. (Then again, if the whole draft goes to defense and the defense still tanks, maybe we can get rid of Ryan? And Garrett. And Jerry.) Not sure about Chicago - cautiously optimistic. If Alshon (and Marshall) work out, it's going to be weird: AirBears. Or Da Bairs. Actually not too thrilled with Houston overall, but not bad. I think Baltimore had a good draft. Pittsburgh likely had better. The whole AFC North did okay in places but I don't see this draft, alone, changing the balance of power there.

Anyway - wonder who will find the free agents everyone else missed?

[Parson]

And how many of those "they will be starter for 12 years" players will be driving truck come December.

[Culhwch]

I had intended to check in and chat about the draft, but as the Saints didn't pick until the third round, I didn't have too much to say about them. Otherwise, interesting flurry of trades, some of the usual head-scratchers, and a lot of hyperbole and snap judgements on players who're yet to play a snap of professional football.

And now that that's done, the Rog has brought his banhammer down on the Saints players invloved in the bounty scandal, and it's actually not all that bad.

Vilma is gone for the year, and that's probably harsher than expected, but I can't argue with it. It's not going to affect the defense all that much, either. Vilma is a declining player, and we picked up Curtis Lofton and David Hawthorne in free agency, both of whom are vastly superior in the middle linebacker spot. Had he played this year at all he'd have been pushed to the outside or played as a back-up. There'll be some adjustments to make as he was the playcaller, but I'd say Lofton or Malcolm Jenkins can handle that. Vilma won't play another snap as a Saint now.

Will Smith copped a four game suspension. This is more of a worry as he's our premier pass rusher at DE (not that that's saying much), however we did without him the first four games of last season, so I think they'll be fine.

And that was it for current Saints. Anthony Hargrove is with the Pack and will sit half the season, and Scott Fujita is with the Browns now and will miss three games.

It could have been worse, for sure. But there has been a lot of turnover on defense, so only a few core players remain. They can weather this, for sure, and I think the Saints still have to be favoured for the NFC South and one of the favourites for the Superbowl...

[J-Sun]

Yep - it's kind of ridiculous - a couple of innocent teams got hit almost as bad. The Saints just lose two players for half a season, getting one back midway. And I've already complained about the stupid fine the Saints got. Turns out they made a huge profit on that fine, as they don't have to pay those salaries. They even get a cap bonus that will enable them to work out a deal with Brees. And, of course, by not immediately suspending management, Goodell allowed the Saints to have an orderly transition and a normal draft (bar missing picks). And, while I'm okay with what suspensions there are, only 4 out of the 20-some looks awfully arbitrary. Shouldn't all of them have been suspended for at least one game? And, since Goodell likes delivering punishments that look much harsher than they are, they could be implemented at the Saints' discretion. ("Look much harsher" in an institutional sense - they're harsh from the individual's standpoint but the organization arguably got off lightly or more lightly than it might seem at first glance, anyway.)

Anyway - in really sad, confusing news, Junior Seau was either murdered or committed suicide or had a horrible accident. Dead at 43 of a gunshot wound to the chest, apparently.

In really happy news in a sense, if you get past the tragedy in the first place, the Bucs made a great free-agent signing today.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by Parson

(And I do not know the proverb. It is not biblical and so my obvious store of proverbs cannot be tapped.)

I think Winters Sorrow may have been thinking of the proverb:

It is easier for Tim Tebow to throw a football through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.