Horror writers: Where do you draw the line?

[Celeritas]

i've been working on a bit of gory psychological horror/scifi for three years now.

i'm wondering:

Blood, Guts, Gore and Shock Factors in general? I want this work to remain artistically tasteful but still scary and creepy/shocking...any thoughts?

any examples of this sort of thing done well in your opinion?

[JDP]

The Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F Hamilton is a good SF with what I'd consider strong horror elements. I think it does the whole gore/violence thing pretty well - it's fairly hardcore but not (in my opinion) totally gratuitous. Might be worth you having a look?

[wytchcroft]

Well you have to become your own BBFC and analyse what you write by asking some basic questions such as;

Is there a point to the detail (action/description /violence/sexuality etc)
or am I simply aiming to provoke/arouse the reader?

Am I just getting off on this stuff myself?

Does the detail enhance the atmosphere of the piece or detract from it?

Does it move the essential story along?

To whom and in what context does the detail apply?

That last point there is the kicker - very complex.
I'll give a dumb/obvious example; ok, you have a castle full of vampires, hungry vampires.
You have a group of raggedy strangers sheltering for the night.

What happens next?
Well d'uh! Yes - of course, you're right - the vamps are gonna chew through the humans like they're chocolate. OK then...
but - who, when, in what order - why them?
And this is before you even get to decide how graphic your detail is going to be.

The young girl in the group admits doing tricks to pay her college tuition.
Do you kill her? If so, when and how? Are there sexual elements to her death? What does this say about your view of the character?

An anxious old priest regains his faith when he sees the power of the cross upon the vampire - but are they just toying with him? What kind of evil death awaits - beaten to death with his own bible? Bitten by a vampire whose two long fangs are carved into crucifixes? - And what does this say about your view of priests?

A young street punk from Ireland - who is mocked by the group, becomes keen to prove himself. Do you kill him? When? Just after someone has made jokes about him? Does that mean his death is deserved? Yadda yadda.

Hell it could go on and on - lollipop ladies, bus drivers, boys, girls, pet dogs - whatever. Chances are you don't even HAVE a view - it's a story right?
But what will the reader think????

The upside is that working out the who, the what, the why and when... makes for a sharper story.

Last thing - ok, so you've worked all that out. You simply have to decide on the pacing of your detail - too much too soon will kill the narrative tension and lose the reader. Funnily enough the same applies to repetition; too much gore/sex too often and the words lose their power. De Sade has a reputation for not only being absolutely graphic - but also absolutely dull. Shopping lists of depravity are still only shopping lists and not much fun to read.


Hope that helps - apologies if it reads as at all patronising - it's not meant that way. I've given a fairly crass example of something that becomes more complex according to the narrative context of your story. I'm not going to second guess what that story is - that would just be rude.

[Archus]

my take on this is I would write it based on two things:

It is relevant to the story
I would only write up to the point where I myself would read it.

Anything else would be senseless.

[TheUltimateChosenOne]

Personally, I don't like all the blood, guts and gore. Mainly, I believe that a true horror story can work excellentl without it. The thrill and shock factor is what you mainy want. Try watching some old black and white horror movies and you'll see that it can still be great without the blood, guts and gore.

[j. d. worthington]

I've little to add here, except to chime in with the idea that it depends on whether or not it is gratuitous, and to add that gore and such very seldom increase the level of a tale's being either scary or creepy. Shocking, certainly, but that's one of the easiest things a writer can do, and it becomes meretricious if it doesn't serve some other purpose. If the gore/violence/etc. actually serves a purpose to increase the genuine feel of the weird or horrific (rather than the feelings of nausea, disgust, and revulsion... or even the inclination to laugh because it's gone too far over the top), and also serves some sort of symbolic purpose of greater depth and meaning (as is the case with Ambrose Bierce, for example, or T. E. D. Klein, or Ramsey Campbell, some of Stephen King, or Caitlin R. Kiernan), then it transcends mere physical repulsion and touches a deeper chord; in which case it is a valid exercise in the writing of terror....

[Celeritas]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

I've little to add here, except to chime in with the idea that it depends on whether or not it is gratuitous, and to add that gore and such very seldom increase the level of a tale's being either scary or creepy. Shocking, certainly, but that's one of the easiest things a writer can do, and it becomes meretricious if it doesn't serve some other purpose. If the gore/violence/etc. actually serves a purpose to increase the genuine feel of the weird or horrific (rather than the feelings of nausea, disgust, and revulsion... or even the inclination to laugh because it's gone too far over the top), and also serves some sort of symbolic purpose of greater depth and meaning (as is the case with Ambrose Bierce, for example, or T. E. D. Klein, or Ramsey Campbell, some of Stephen King, or Caitlin R. Kiernan), then it transcends mere physical repulsion and touches a deeper chord; in which case it is a valid exercise in the writing of terror....

it's a slasher serial killer story and nessecarily has to have violence.

well....i'll give a little background to the story...

all my stories are set in the same scifi setting.

a strange girl goes to hang out at the mall and meets a very strange guy. they chat for a bit with some bizarre tension going on between them and the counter girl hears the whole thing.

she goes home to her parents house and goes to sleep. that night someone breaks into their home. she manages to hide. as the masked man is tormenting her parents, a woman breaks in. they are both seasoned psychopathic serial killers who just happen to break into the same house. they strike up a conversation about murder in general and the girl recognizes their voices as the two weirdos from the mall. they are both surprised to find the other there. so the conversation wheels around to the two murderers making a bet to see who is best at what they do. and then they kill the girl's parents.

murder/revenge thriller/mystery/suspense story in a science fiction setting.

there has to be SOME gore/violence. to make the revenge element stick the murders have to be brutal enough to drive a ditzy fifteen year old girl to stock up on some weapons, learn how to fight and go gunning for the two that killed her parents or it doesn't work. and the bet element requires more violence it seems. but i'm thinking I could possibly temper that violence by making the tortures more psychological in nature.....science fiction technology allows for some interesting elements of fear to be added.....


(don't worry...the bad guys in this really get it in the end...HARD.)

[Lobolover]

Well,it depends.When theres the supernatural involved,most cases id say no then yes.If its natural,then maybe.

[Ice fyre]

I would say that you dont nescessarily have to have gore in this story you could reduce that gore by using flashbacks. Maybe the young girl tells the story in small segements between revenge hunting.

Also you can imply things rather than doing an out and out Richard laymon and or Graham Masterton, you know the entrails hanging off every spare point of the room.

Build the tension of the chase, using the flashbacks as pointers to why she's doing this, and to add dramatic tension. But If you want to do gore, go ahead, it's your story, just dont feel presured into doing it.

just a thought.

[WafflesToo]

I'd say the more you describe the smaller impact you are actually going to have. A serious reader is going to have a far more vivid imagination than you'll be able to convey with words anyway.

For example; in my short story, 'Battle of Eden'; a one-sentence discription of the remains of one of the crew who died messily had my girlfriend squirming very satisfactorily.

However, the opposite may be true when dealing with the death of a major character (you know, the one that all the readers love and are just absolutely sure you'd never actually harm). A grisly description of her final moments as she screams, "NOOOO! STOP! STOP!" might make some readers ill (lol).

[Celeritas]

I think I've determined a good approach.

I think the telling of each violent event should fall to the victim of that event. Because seeing it happen is different than being the one it happens to.

thank you all for the comments that helped get my thoughts in order.

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by WafflesToo

I'd say the more you describe the smaller impact you are actually going to have. A serious reader is going to have a far more vivid imagination than you'll be able to convey with words anyway.

An excellent point. As I've said on here before, the best kind of horror is that which leaves room for your imagination to imagine the worst.

The concept of horror varies from person to person, so the best horror writing allows each individual to conjure up their own, personal horror.