Fattism

[SJAB]

Well, just a word from someone who is "overweight" and "obese". I don't object to people saying or thinking that. Yes, I have a problem, one I am fighting and dealing with, but I have set backs each time I go back into hospital. (my problem really started when I nearly died five years ago, and that left me with a damaged lymph system). What annoys the hell out of me is that people equate weight with being stupid, thick and lazy. That really gets to me, as I am none of these, but because I am now large I get treated as if I am.

[Overread]

Originally Posted by Lenny

Human rights for big, bushy beards?

We need this!
there are too few beards about the place!

[The Ace]

Only if you blind anyone calling a redhead, 'Ginger,' OR.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Of course, you're not Sue.

And isn't this thread a marvelous example of how society isn't prejudiced against fat people?

Obesity hurts no one but the overweight individual, yet it continues to astonish me how much venom is directed at fat people, and sometimes by people of whom I had expected so much better.

I'm having just the opposite problem than you: being sick the last six months has caused me to lose about as much weight as if I had been dieting all that time. I'd gladly take back those pounds to be healthy again.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Obesity hurts no one but the overweight individual....

This is not strictly true: public transport is often designed only for moderately overweight people (if that). This may be the fault of the systems' operators, but when you're edged into a narrow corridor in a train (UK trains are narrower than on the Continent and in the US), you may feel less than happy about the space taken by the person nearer the window. (Most people in the UK would (if sober) rather die than speaking to the person sitting next to them, so there's less abuse than you might imagine in this situation.)


Actually, though, what I'd really like to comment on is the increase in the number of people who see themselves as a member of some self-defined group** and then demand that their group is given some sort of privilege or protection. As the UK seems to be about to enter the era of positive discrimination in the workplace, this is a worrying trend.



** - It is particularly worrying, IMHO, where the attribute that defines the group is, in most cases, voluntary. Strict rules about gender, and other things defined by one's DNA***, are one thing. (As Ace has pointed out, being naturally ginger is still seen as a ticket to mild abuse, at least in the UK.) But as Sue has highlighted, other, normally voluntary, characteristics can be involuntary. But even so, I'd hope that companies did not have targets for the minimum number of body-mass-index-challenged to be employed.


*** "Race" is a tricky one here, as many genetisists claim that race is not strictly genetic; the rest of us, though, seem to think we know what it means, so racial discrimination should be barred by law.





By the way, I speak as someone who was once ginger and who is still above their ideal weight.


Oh, and real abuse is always wrong.

[Teresa Edgerton]

You know, I find this topic particularly interesting in light of the recent thread on smoking, wherein we learned how persecuted and demonized the poor smokers were. And yet any of the problems that smokers face are as much the product of self-indulgence as the individual who sits in a chair all day cramming down hamburgers and ice-cream, and they certainly put as big a strain on the health care system.

Well, there are two big differences:

1) I've never heard of someone becoming addicted to nicotine as a side-effect of a health problem.

2) I've never heard of a fat person shoving a bag of potato-chips down somebody else's throat.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Oh, and one more thing: Teenagers and children even younger are killing themselves -- sometimes by developing eating disorders, sometimes by committing suicide straight out -- because of our society's sick obsession with weight. Very often the trouble begins when children who are only slightly overweight are taunted by their schoolmates for being fat.

This is a very serious problem, and the sort of attitude that makes it acceptable for people to make jokes or make judgements based on other people's weight is a very large part of that problem.

[Overread]

School taunts have always been around for those who are not "comformists" to percived perfection - nothing is new there.
What I think is the problem is that once this was the domain of kids alone - adults did not lower themselves (on the whole) to this level of low bullying, so the bullied kids did have some repreive.
Today, however, TV constantly adds to this bullying with its concept of perfection being constantly broadcast over and over - and most shows that are showing overweight models or some such other are often not aimed at equality or sanity but more at the humor value. Add to that the fashion industry (for women) which sets out its rules for what should be warn - I have seen many girls and women who look far fatter than they really are because they insist on wearing the tightest clothing and shortest tops - which must not only be very uncomfortable, unhealthy but also serves to exacerbate their often minor "inperfections" - as percieved by society

[R. P. Lane]

Well, this is certainly an interesting thread and I thank Vlad for posting it. I was truly not aware of the situation facing very overweight individuals. I have a few friends that are overweight but these are due to medical problems that I am well aware of so I don't notice the 'fat' so to speak. But a situation had come up and now reading about doctors not wanting to treat the very obese it has me wondering.

I know a young girl who has just turned 18 years old. She has not felt well for a few years and my daughter says that this girl has 'lumps' on various parts of her body. This young girl went to a clinic to see a doctor but he wouldn't even check her over, just told her to lose some weight. She has gone to others doctors since then and they don't want to see her either. I had thought perhaps she wasn't getting through to the doctors or in some way her manner was putting them off, but my daughter who finally went to a doctor with her said that the doctor was to blame. So now.......

I live in Winnipeg, Canada and though we have our share of overweight individuals I had never heard that doctors didn't want to treat them. The other overweight people I know don't appear to have a problem with doctors but perhaps they do, I will have to find out. Perhaps there is a difference with the medical profession as to whether a person is just overweight or obese. Still... I would think that a good doctor would see past that and examine an ill person.

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Originally Posted by Allegra

'Fat Rights' groups? So what are we gonna hear next, athlete feet rights groups? Hernia rights groups? Everyone knows obesity is a disease, an illness. They really should use up more time and energy working on treatments, healthy diet, exercise - to lose weight, so as to improve the quality of their lives.

You guys might all have a point here, but fat people DO get condemned a lot, and condemnation doesn't help at all-NOT TO MENTION those that CAN'T get thinner, due to genetic disorders or accidents or anything.

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Of course, you're not Sue.

And isn't this thread a marvelous example of how society isn't prejudiced against fat people?

Obesity hurts no one but the overweight individual, yet it continues to astonish me how much venom is directed at fat people, and sometimes by people of whom I had expected so much better.

I'm having just the opposite problem than you: being sick the last six months has caused me to lose about as much weight as if I had been dieting all that time. I'd gladly take back those pounds to be healthy again.

I agree more with this, why can't people see what gets done to those who are even slightly overweight, much less obese like I am?

[Wybren]

Over here some of the smaller regional hospitals are refusing to deliver babies to women with a BMI over a certain limit because they are classed as "High risk". I think that it is a sad state of affairs when someone living in a remote area can not access their local hospital to deliver their child because of how much they weigh.

Pregnant mum told she is too fat to give birth at hospital | The Courier-Mail

Here there is a big push to get healthy and active to help fight obesity ( Apparently us aussies now outweigh the americans as the fattest people) yet their is little positive support offered, nor are people given accurate education on how to loose weight and keep it off. The proven prescription medications to help obese people loose weight are not subsidised ($70 per month) yet the government go on about how much it costs health care in the long term with diabetes and heart disease etc. No overweight person I know enjoys being overweight, yet is incredibly disheartening and soul destroying when you are treated like you aren't as good because your girth is large (except in China, where my dad was treated very well because they thought he was very wealthy)

[Redtail]

Originally Posted by The Ace

Only if you blind anyone calling a redhead, 'Ginger,' OR.

and may I add Blue to this, from one who's been there?!(why redheads are called blue is beyond me)

[JDP]

I'd be interested to know the stats on what proportion of obese people are obese because of illness/injury as compared to a simple lifestyle choice (?).

I think turning away pregnant women is appalling - even if they are 'high risk' patients, it's not the babies' fault! Give the little blighters a break!

For regular ops etc., I think it's fair enough for doctors to turn away obese people for non-essential surgery if they are at a particularly high risk of dying on the table. And I can also see the logic that if someone takes up two seats on a plane, they should pay for two seats.

[Vladd67]

There are people who are obese due to illness or injury, however there are some morbidly obese people who are that way because of what they eat. Recent documentaries I have seen on Discovery H&H show people who top 40 stone (560 pounds). They are in a clinic to help with their weight loss, they get exercise a special diet education on food and group therapy, and what happens, they phone out for pizza. Some people can only be helped if they want to be. I accept of course that this is symptomatic of a mental disorder, but these people are eating themselves to death, digging their own graves with a knife and fork. Hospitals are having to buy larger beds and wheel chairs, even ambulances are having to be made bigger to cope with the growing average size of the population.

[Wybren]

That would be an interesting thing to see JDP but there may be many people who are obese because of a medical reason but are unaware of it or be too self concious to ask for help.

I agree that for non urgent surgery that it is fair enough for doctors to consider not operating on an individual because of their weight, as that gives the patient a higher risk of complication. And as most doctors are in the business of saving lives, I think I would rather the doctors not take the risk of doing more harm than good than vice versa.