Conflicts in philosophical viewpoints (knivesout...this is for you)

[laznlor]

Okay, in my "hi" thread, knivesout said that he feels Heinlein's politics are problematic and that he seems to espouse two completely different views in Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers. (I tried to copy and paste, but it wouldn't let me, something about editing mozilla config file, if anyone knows what that means, please help) Anyway, I dug Starship up and reread it, and now I'm really curious about this. I don't see it at all. Does anyone else agree with him/her on this? And can you tell me why?

[Leto]

We had at first talked about this here : http://www.chronicles-network.net/fo...ead.php?t=2486

Basically, Stranger could be seen (and has been seen) as the epitome of hippy lifestyle, while some thinks of Straship troopers as a military tract on the far right of the political spectrum (without the racism usually associated to this type of politics - interesting thing to note).
We're not the only ones arguing about Heinlein's point of views, the article Wikipedia dit about him is very interesting in this aspect :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinlein

For the records, I'm in the far left part of the political spectrum (maybe not for Eurpoeans and Asians but certainly for Americans) and I love Heinlein.

[laznlor]

I think this is where I'm having the problem. I do not agree that communal living=hippie. I think the idea of personal responsibility is the underlying theme in both books, just illustrated in different ways. (I haven't followed the links yet, A Mighty Wind is on and I haven't seen it yet, so more later)

[knivesout]

Aha.

Well... I actually read a bit of Troopers a day back to see if I could refresh mmy memory on this.

OK. In Stranger in a Strane Land, the basic tenet being preached (and Heinlein is never less than preachy in this most talk-y of his works!) seems to be the Crowleyian 'do what you will shall be the whole of the law'. In the form of Harshaw, Heinlein also seems to be advocating questioning all the deepky held beliefs of your culture, Western culture in this case, but if it was something Heinlein really held to, it ought to apply in any context. However, it certainly doesn't seem to apply in Starship Troopers where the basis of the conflict is never examined or questioned. The war is on, and it's each citizen's responsibility to help defeat the bugs. There is a specific chapter about a training class that I want to re-read before getting into this further, though.

One more point - although Stranger would appear to be place a lot of importance on the individual, there's very little thought given to simply disintegrating Smith's enemies. Just as, in Double Star, when the actor gives up his own personality, little thought is given to the fact that maybe his original self had some worth too. I believe that Heinlein was more intersted in idividualism as a way to cease power for himself, or his analogues in fiction, than as a real attempt to give dignity and importance to all human life.

[George Potter]

First and foremost, Stranger is a social satire that takes great joy in turning sacred cows into hamburger. On another level, it's an allegory about individualism.

Troopers is a political allegory about communism vs. capitalism. The government of the Federation is more in line with a Randian libertarian minarchy than any flavor of 'fascism'.

The two books were written for completely different reasons and to achieve completely different ends.

I love 'em both.

[knivesout]

So he seems contradictory only because he's a reactionary, and the windmills he's tilting at change from book to book? Works for me. As does his fiction, depsite all my ideological misgivings.