Raising extinct animals in captivity

[Creator]

Hi I am planning to write a story something along the line of BBC's Prehistoric Park. Except for one thing, the stars of the "zoo" are animals that we have hunted to extinction.

I am making a list of species that we should bring back to the present. The Dodo and the Tasmanian Wolf are among them.

Since this is a "science" fiction forum I feel that this place would suit such a topic, I do not have much knowledge on how zoos operate or how some of the animals in really can be kept in zoos in the first place without them escaping. Amongst such questions are"

I got an Eagle who has a wingspan of over 3 metres, how am I going to make sure she doesn't fly over her enclosure and attack the moa's enclosure nearby.

I even saved Megalania, the giant goanna from Australia, but can it survive on goats? I got a population of deer and goat for the carnivore's enclosure.

[Quokka]

The Tasmanian Wolf is more often referred to as the Tasmanian Tiger (well in Australia at least) but if you're keeping them in a zoo you'd hopefully be calling them Thylacines as they're not all that closely related to either canines or felines.

As for the bird as far as I know you've got the three standard options, either build a really big cage, clip their wings or rely on training. Of course if you're able to bring them back from extinction you may also have the option of genetic manipulation or other science though I'm not sure what you could do there that would be any more effective?

[Overread]

hmm If you can genetically bring creatures back from the dead - what is to stop you reprogramming certain aspects of their mentality or construction (there big plot idea and a subtheme if you wish - teh morals and ethics of manipulating the genetic structure from the norm -- how far is too far?

As for raising the animals - well first off feeding would be done (least in the UK) with dead animals for the carnivores - never live food (considered inhumane). After that each creature would need its own different set of needs and desires - this would have to be determined by study of closest living relatives of the species, study of its environment and also the actual experience of keeping the animal captive.
As for the birds Quokka is right though when ever I have seen large indoor enclosures they are almost always for the short flight birds - things like parrots and doves which though capable of longer flights are quite happy to fly and hover short distances. Larger birds (3mwingspane ones for certain) don't do well in these enclousures as they simply don't have enough space to fly - they more used to crusing very long distances in normal flight. Thus these tend to be trained (tagged) and flown outside - at zoos they combine this with the shows to add an attraction

[Creator]

Hmm Overread well soory I will not be manipulating their genes. I will be just make the main characters just pop in from the portal carrying the live animal in a jeep.

I already got the idea for the Thylacine is that the main characters will have to TASER the guy who was about to skin one alive and the main characters barge into the slaughter house and save 3 of them while releasing the other imprisoned ones. How comforting the dream huh? But of course the one Thylacine who was about to be skinned alive had to be put to sleep as it got severe infections.

For the Haast Eagle, I think clipping the flight feather and blunting the talons a bit would be a cruel don't you think? And a man-eating eagle is not going to let itself be tamed so easily right?

[Overread]

well tigers, lions and dogs are known to eat men on the odd occasion (though bigcats will predate on man moreso than wolves who really don't -- look it up and wolves very rarely attack men on purpose)
however birds are not mammals and so can be somewhat dimmer in their views at times. Declawing birds does happen, though usually its only the spurs on a leg that are removed (And only for certain species) the declawing I don't think is possible otherwise the bird would be unable to perch.
Wing clipping has 2 sides to it - one the one hand its not perminant and has to be done each year or the feathers are simply regrown and replaced overtime thus its possible to clipp the bird and then at a later date release it with the capacity to fly.
However stress is an important consideration with captive birds as they can die from it very easily - a large 3m wingspan raptor (predatory bird) is not going to let you walk up and clip its wings. What they might do is not clip the wings but pinion the bird - where one wing is selectivly broken when the bird is chick and thus never develops the nessessary musces to allow flight. This is common with captive wild waterfowl however I don't know if such could be done to a bird which has its primary form of motivation as flight -- not sure on this

[Creator]

For an Eagle, wikipedia mentions that the Haast's Eagle's wing in proportion are short.

it represents a departure from its ancestors' mode of soaring flight and towards higher wing loading and maneuverability. The strong legs and massive flight muscles would have enabled the birds to take off with a jumping start from the ground, despite their great weight. The tail was almost certainly long (up to 50 cm (20 inches), in female specimens) and very broad, further increasing maneuverability and providing additional lift.

But what do they mean higher wing loading and maneuverability? Does that mean that the Haast's Eagle is a fast flying bird? If so, an enclosure would not be plausible then.

[Quokka]

I was curious about what was used in zoos etc today, apparently the San Diego Zoo has some of the best aviaries in the world, they were able to enclose natural canyons to create really large enclosed areas. One of the biggest being about 25m high, 21m wide and 46m long.

Give your park the right natural geography and I imagine you could quite believably build an enclosed aviary that dwarfs that one .


Then as overread said it comes down to the temperment and natural behaviour of the animals rather then just physical excercise.

[Overread]

Well firstly that is wiki - I would follow the sources stated for more indepth understanding
As for what it means (am I no ornathologist- SP) but I would assume it means that the wings have a higher load capacity (can carry more wieght, more power) and are not made for long distance crusing flights but more for quick and sharper turns - maneuverable.
Technicall speaking there is no enclosure that is perfect - in the past zoos were made only to show off the exotic animals for far nations - a case of cramming as many into as small a space as possible. Today zoos are a boardline thing - on the one hand they need the income from tourists to keep feeding and caring for thier stock - whilst on the other they try to get enclosures as big as they can - they never are big enough though. In the end its a trade off- if the animal is not in the cage it is in the wild - if its habitate is gone and/or poachers have wiped out much of the species then chances are in the wild the species will die out - in the zoo it canbe preserved and by keeping bloodlines fresh (new stock and interzoo trades of animals for breeding) health captive stock can be kept and increased with an aim to releasing into the wild -- which has to coinside with habitate restoration programs and often monitering programs to keep poachers away

[Creator]

Oh? It has an enclosure with a canyon!? Yah of course my park has some natural geography to contain the animals. It cannot contain dinosaurs definitely but it will do for animals that are recently extinct.

But to contain a 3m wingspan man-eating Eagle? But according to the articles, Haast Eagle was a forest dweller.

[Urlik]

how about thinking outside the box on this one

instead of enclosing the animals, have them totally free, like in a wildlife reserve, and enclose the visitors in either a metal mesh tunnel or some form of clear plastic that is able to withstand tremendous impacts (plexiglass is capable of anything in SF )

this solution allows each animal to live within its own environment, as long as you provide them with a large enough population of prey for the hunters, and plenty of flora for the herbivors.

river canyons can be created to seperate endangered herbivors from carnivors.
if the zoo is on an island, if it is large enough, a large inland sea and a large freshwater lake can be created for the (semi)aquatic creatures that are saved, although this could be left for a sequel

[dustinzgirl]

Originally Posted by Urlik

how about thinking outside the box on this one

instead of enclosing the animals, have them totally free, like in a wildlife reserve, and enclose the visitors in either a metal mesh tunnel or some form of clear plastic that is able to withstand tremendous impacts (plexiglass is capable of anything in SF )

this solution allows each animal to live within its own environment, as long as you provide them with a large enough population of prey for the hunters, and plenty of flora for the herbivors.

river canyons can be created to seperate endangered herbivors from carnivors.
if the zoo is on an island, if it is large enough, a large inland sea and a large freshwater lake can be created for the (semi)aquatic creatures that are saved, although this could be left for a sequel

I think this would be the best way to do it.

Or, if you want a safari type zoo that is both open and closed, check out

Wildlife Safari - Winston Oregon

You could probably email them for questions about the subject of separation, they do separate predators from prey. Its one of my favorite zoo type places because it tries to keep the environment as natural as possible, except for the obvious fences. The lions hang out on big rocks and get sun, and seem rather oblivious to gawkers. The tigers, who are caged near the lions, are almost constantly trying to dig out of the fences, even though they do have adequate space. Its pretty cool.

[The Ace]

In aircraft, a high wing loading brings high performance at the expense of handling. It'd probably be able to fly fast and turn on a thatcher, but would land in little more than a controlled crash.

[Creator]

Originally Posted by Urlik

instead of enclosing the animals, have them totally free, like in a wildlife reserve, and enclose the visitors in either a metal mesh tunnel or some form of clear plastic that is able to withstand tremendous impacts (plexiglass is capable of anything in SF )

Hmmm That would work only for the aviary I had in mind. The Haast's Eagle will need a big cage for it to roam about. I think for a 3m wingspan bird, a bird cage at about something like this.



Anyway, I got the Moas in a separate enclosure, they will do well in a modified ostrich fence. But I think the Moa and Haast Eagle exhibits are going to take up a big portion of the aviary.

[Quokka]

It's really going to depend on what the aim of the zoo is. Is it primarily for the visitors or is the zoo secondary to recreating the extinct animals?

The Haast Eagle may survive in a cage like that but it's going to be one unhappy bird and you're not going to see anything like natural behaviour. The aviary I mentioned above was 25m x 21m x 46m with the right natural conditions and some excavations/constructions you could easily have something like 50m x 50m x 400m. With an area like that you could try let the birds live and breed somewhat naturally. You'd want a nice tree top walk for visitors and really push the environmental/conservative angle.

I agree that the best method would be to largely keep everything open but the birds of prey may make it difficult and I'm guessing you'd be restricted to how many different birds you could bring back.

[Creator]

Hmm yah... But the Haast Eagle might need attack the tree top walk you know. the Haast Eagle had a fearsome reputation by Maori. The birds were also depicted in rock drawings. I think a canyon would be good for it.

but I can't let the Moas who are obvious very big birds roam around too freely. They very big birds and letting at least a flock of 3-4 individuals walk around can pretty disruptive. And the Haast Eagle might kill one for breakfast.