Creating a (very) cliche world?

[Mammon]

Hello everyone. I got some idea of a world and wanted to work it out. First I will give the idea of the world, named Kouluu.

Kouluu is a strange world filled with funny, scary, strange and crazy creatures. Also, the laws of physics don’t always have to be the same as in our own world.
Because of the many creatures, there exists an important food chain must be obliged. At the top of the food chain, the Cyrthan stand. The humans are also part of the food chain, their place is somewhere in the middle.
The strongest of the Cyrthan is seen as the great leader of Kouluu and raises taxes, takes slaves and creatures to feast upon. The right of leadership can be challenged, though only other Cyrthan will do this.

Foodchain:

----------------Cyrthan
-------Orc-------Troll------Ogre
Goblin-----Dwarf------Human------Elf
Gnome------Kobold-----Hobbit-----Fairy
Greenling--Earthling--Beardling--Fairling

Now I was wondering if it is a problem to use the cliche races as Orc, Troll, Ogre, Goblin, Dwarf, etc. When I read a fantasy book and it contains Orcs, elfs and dwarfs I think: another cliche world. But with this world I wouldn't know if I would see it as a cliche world. Maybe because I created it myself. So I was wondering what your thoughts about it would be.

[Leisha]

If you think you can add another spin on an existing format, I'd say go for it. The only way you'll find out is by writing it and seeing what your (and other people's) thoughts are as you go along.

Just don't re-write an existing tale!

[pyan]

Most of the races you mention are in public domain, so to speak.

The ones that I would be careful about using are Orc and Hobbit, both of which were invented by Tolkien, and may lay you open to people crying "Plagiarist!", or worse, "Gods, not another Tolkien rip-off..."

[TheEndIsNigh]

Mmm... Not too happy about this either. Let's face it the 'races' you've used do have established implications. Ok trolls eat goats and orcs have been known to feast on anything that moves but it seems to me your tale will be relying on the readers in built expectations and if they act outside those boundaries it will jar with the readers. You know as in:-

Muskroy the troll was collecting roses from his garden when the human...

Also it rules out the option for building the profiles of your fauna for yourself. The 'qualities' of one of your monsters could be exactly the same as say a troll however, you'll miss out on all the descriptive pros that gets the reader into building the picture for him/herself. As in :-

The faint traces of spittle mingled with the remnants of the Spags (troll) last meal...

Also Earthling Human too confusing mixing genre.

Course opinions are meant to be disagreed with so...

[Malloriel]

One thing I would definitely be careful of is the fact that in many cases ogres are the generic form of Orcs, and halflings substituted for Hobbits, both of which I'd personally avoid simply because they ARE Tolkien's creations and quite possibly under copyright, and the Tolkien estate is not afraid to let you know when you've overstepped your bounds.

As for the "Spags", mentioned by TheEndIsNigh, not that I disagree with that certainly being a better option than Orcs, just in my opinion, but you don't want it to become a situation where you're taking a pre-established thing and giving it a new name to say "Bam! Now it's different!" If all you really want to have is an ogre type thing, then make it an ogre type thing. If what you want comes similar to an ogre type thing, but has a completely different societal structure with surprisingly complex ins and outs, a system of written language, organised festivals, and a drooling problem, then give them a name that separates them from the crowd.

Here:

• "Call a Rabbit a Smeerp"
  A cheap technique for false exoticism, in which common elements of the real world are re-named for a fantastic milieu without any real alteration in their basic nature or behavior. "Smeerps" are especially common in fantasy worlds, where people often ride exotic steeds that look and act just like horses. (Attributed to James Blish.)

From the Turkey City Lexicon.

I've personally found this to be a very important reminder in my own world building and think it's something everyone could use at some time or another.

That's just me and my opinion, though.

[TheEndIsNigh]

Malloriel: Yes I agree call a troll a troll.

The thing that calling them spag gives you is the option of stepping away from the stereotypical troll and allows for other 'qualities' such as the flower arranging, care for old ladies and spinal fluid tea parties.

[Leisha]

...that in many cases ogres are the generic form of Orcs, and halflings substituted for Hobbits, both of which I'd personally avoid simply because they ARE Tolkien's creations and quite possibly under copyright.

Didn't an author publish a book once where the lead characters were orcs, and the book told their story, making them look less like "the bad guys"? I remember hearing about such a book a long time ago. It had good reviews.

So, possibly you can use these creatures, as long as you give them a new spin...

"Call a Rabbit a Smeerp"

Good advice here. I remember reading that article over a year ago. Great stuff!

[chrispenycate]

Originally Posted by Leisha

Didn't an author publish a book once where the lead characters were orcs, and the book told their story, making them look less like "the bad guys"? I remember hearing about such a book a long time ago. It had good reviews.

So, possibly you can use these creatures, as long as you give them a new spin...

Mary Gentle "Grunts" perchance? I haven't yet found a copy, and when I wrote An Orcward interval Ihadn't even heard of it

[pyan]

I don't know what £1.25 is in Swiss Francs, Chris...

MARY GENTLE GRUNTS FANTASY COMEDY PB on eBay,

[chrispenycate]

Originally Posted by pyan

I don't know what £1.25 is in Swiss Francs, Chris...

MARY GENTLE GRUNTS FANTASY COMEDY PB on eBay,

£1. 25 for the book. £2.00 postage within Great Britain; probably three times that to Switzerland. Why I'm not using Amazon much; postage costs more than the books.

And the calculation is now easy; the Swiss Franc and the Dollar US are neck and neck…

[Leisha]

LOL! That might have been the novel. Grunts sounds familiar. And, Chrispy, I love your version!

See - if only you'd gotten there first...

[pyan]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

Why I'm not using Amazon much; postage costs more than the books.

What you really need are a couple of well-trained Pointless Albatrosses

Originally Posted by Malloriel

ogres are the generic form of Orcs

Goblins = Orcs, surely?

[Culhwch]

I believe an author by the name of Stan Nichols wrote a series featuring orcs as protagonists, too.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Actually, orc is an Anglo Saxon word meaning monster or demon. Tolkien, of course, did equate them with goblins (only bigger and meaner than the average goblin).

But words such as goblin, troll, and elf have each had many different meanings over the centuries. Some of them are fairly flexible terms. It's just that in modern fantasy -- particularly fantasy based on D&D type role-playing games -- these words have a tendency to take on stock meanings, which in many cases rob them of most (or all) of their mythic power.

If you want to do something that hasn't been done to death, but which still has a certain psychological resonance, you can always research some of the older, traditional uses of these terms.

(Oh, and "hobbits" are mentioned in the Denham Tracts -- mid-nineteenth century, I don't remember the year -- in a long list of fairies, sprites, ghosts, hobgoblins, etc. There is no description, however, and Hobbits as we know them are definitely an invention of Tolkien's.)

[Ghost of Harrenhal]

Originally Posted by pyan

Most of the races you mention are in public domain, so to speak.

The ones that I would be careful about using are Orc and Hobbit, both of which were invented by Tolkien, and may lay you open to people crying "Plagiarist!", or worse, "Gods, not another Tolkien rip-off..."

This fellow has the right of it but you could try using "Halfing" instead of "Hobbit" and giving them shoes instead of leathery, hairy feet. It sounds like quite a bizarre idea to have one race governing over all the others and enforcing taxes and such, especially when they are creatures that eat their subjects.