i'm a bit confused !

[magician2magici]

hello all , how are you ?
well , i'm really confused here ..

i'm confused about meanings like : fantasy worlds , alternate worlds , parallel worlds , world buildings and high fantasy definitions..

* fantasy worlds : aren't they the worlds tolkien made in his works ? aren't they the worlds that we try to write them down in many novels ? aren't they meaning a complete different world than ours ?

*parallel worlds : aren't they the worlds ( like magic worlds ) different than ours presented with our world at the same planet .. like rowling's harry potter , or the worlds that lie in different earthes like philip pullman dark materials ?

*alternate worlds : i came by once with this name but frankly not knowing it's meaning !

*world building : isn't it the extensive work done in the novel to make many details of the world inside it and we write down only few details of it ..
or is it any set of world that the story occurs at and it's not like our world ?
tha latter one means that any fantasy novel has world building , like allis in the wonder land for example , right ?

*high fantasy : isn't it a type of fantasy tolkien sat its basis and is determined by the presence of world buildings or not .. or what ?

note : sorry that i bother you from time to time with questions i know you can answer it so easily , frankly speaking i tried hard to find the books you titled and some other friends titled me and others amazon did about the art of fantasy and its basis and really i can't fine any in egypt , i was shocked but i can't find any other source than you .. sorry !

salam ..
m2m

[pyan]

Well, for what it's worth, here's my interpretation...bear in mind though, everyone will have slightly different ideas....

* fantasy worlds : aren't they the worlds tolkien made in his works ? aren't they the worlds that we try to write them down in many novels ? aren't they meaning a complete different world than ours ?

Close enough - usually different geography, history, and possibly life-forms, humanoid and non-humanoid (animals, birds, non-existent creatures, (dragons, orcs, ets.))

*parallel worlds : aren't they the worlds ( like magic worlds ) different than ours presented with our world at the same planet .. like rowling's harry potter , or the worlds that lie in different earthes like philip pullman dark materials ?

Yess...but the usual inference is that our world is running beside it, so to speak, and it's possible to switch between them.

*alternate worlds : i came by once with this name but frankly not knowing it's meaning !

Often, something was changed in history and the world in the story has fundimental differences to the real, present one. For example, a story set today, but Germany won WWII, so the Reich rules Europe.

*world building : isn't it the extensive work done in the novel to make many details of the world inside it and we write down only few details of it ..
or is it any set of world that the story occurs at and it's not like our world ?
tha latter one means that any fantasy novel has world building , like allis in the wonder land for example , right ?

Yes, good description. IMHO, the better the world building, the more believable the story.

*high fantasy : isn't it a type of fantasy tolkien sat its basis and is determined by the presence of world buildings or not .. or what ?

Not quite...I understand it to deal with themes that would alter the whole world...Evil Empires, Quests, etc. Magic swords, dragons, wizards, all nearly compulsory...[/quote]

Hope this helps...but do bear in mind that it is a personal view.

note : sorry that i bother you from time to time with questions i know you can answer it so easily , frankly speaking i tried hard to find the books you titled and some other friends titled me and others amazon did about the art of fantasy and its basis and really i can't fine any in egypt , i was shocked but i can't find any other source than you .. sorry !

Not a problem...one thing we're not short of here are people willing to give you their idea of what things mean.

[The Ace]

There are no stupid questions, and most of us find things out by asking anyway, there's no need to apologise. Pyan summed up most of it, but I'd say that High Fantasy is more of a continuation of the medieval style, as if the legends of that time were real. A medieval world without the dirt, starvation and poverty (except when the baddies are in charge).

[Malloriel]

Originally Posted by magician2magici

hello all , how are you ?
well , i'm really confused here ..

i'm confused about meanings like : fantasy worlds , alternate worlds , parallel worlds , world buildings and high fantasy definitions..

* fantasy worlds : aren't they the worlds tolkien made in his works ? aren't they the worlds that we try to write them down in many novels ? aren't they meaning a complete different world than ours ?

I would say that a fantasy world is a world in which the rules of our own world don't have to apply, and that any new rules can be made for it to dictate how it works. Magic, for example. Made up races, etc. Anything no longer based in reality.

*parallel worlds : aren't they the worlds ( like magic worlds ) different than ours presented with our world at the same planet .. like rowling's harry potter , or the worlds that lie in different earthes like philip pullman dark materials ?

In my own personal definitions, I think I would place Rowling's world in both alternate and parallel. Alternate, I would say, is like reality with a twist, her twist being that the Wizarding World exists. It would be like downtown New York where vampires rule the city. The parallel in Rowling's would be the Wizarding World itself, but I think only barely since it still takes place in the same world, just quarantined from the muggles. Parallel universes is a more common phrase to me, where there may be similarities between it and our own, and I think it sometimes almost acknowledges that ours exists, which is what enables it to be parallel to our own.

*alternate worlds : i came by once with this name but frankly not knowing it's meaning !

You had a pretty good idea of what an alternate world is, you just thought it was parallel. So parallel is (still my interpretations) existing side by side with ours, to pull an example from below, like Alice in Wonderland, where both our England exists and so does Wonderland, at the same time. Alternate worlds would be those based mostly upon our own reality with some changes, such as a world where the Salem witch trials happened because witchcraft was a real threat and not hysteria (not entirely at least), and because of that you have a future similar to our own, but the history books assure us that witches no longer exist, but once were real beings in this world (but really secretly do exist). A darker sort of history of witchcraft and its impact on the future you see (the idea came from a dream ^_^). But there you can use real place names and locations and if you really wanted, you could use the names of current famous people to flesh it out a bit. That's what makes it alternate; a different possibility to our own world.

*world building : isn't it the extensive work done in the novel to make many details of the world inside it and we write down only few details of it .. or is it any set of world that the story occurs at and it's not like our world ?
tha latter one means that any fantasy novel has world building , like allis in the wonder land for example , right ?

Generally reserved for fantasy and sci-fi, but also prevalent in much fiction, it IS the extensive work done to make many details, such as the rules that apply to magic, or how the physics work, or what certain aliens look like and act like. It doesn't mean you HAVE to write only a few of the details in the novels themselves. Hopefully you can express a lot of what you've spent so much time on in a way that's almost atmospheric. The important part is that you the author know the details. It gives you the ability to write with authority, with the knowledge of the facts or at least enough of them to make further improvised fabricating in writing more fluid, to make them all fit together properly.

It can be as extensive or not as you desire. It can be as small as the world is this shape and everyone the story is concerned with lives within this kingdom, and there's only one non-human race and it's this. Or it can be gods and religions and monetary systems and races and languages and kingdoms and lineages and epic long-gone battles and heroes and legends and etc etc ad nauseum.

*high fantasy : isn't it a type of fantasy tolkien sat its basis and is determined by the presence of world buildings or not .. or what ?

Tolkien was certainly one of the most famous of the high fantasy writers and I would say that in my opinion he's probably one of the major pioneers. It refers to the epic sort of fantasy, the sweeping tale of good verses evil, frequently includes supernatural forces and whatnot. You'll find most of the fantasy works are at least a little bit within high fantasy, with elves and dwarves and wizards and the like. It IS characterized by world building, of the extensive kind with all the details that probably won't be won't be revealed within the first few volumes, but not all fantasy novels with world building, magic and elves are high fantasy. It's like Fantasy is the genre, and high/epic fantasy the sub-genre.

note : sorry that i bother you from time to time with questions i know you can answer it so easily , frankly speaking i tried hard to find the books you titled and some other friends titled me and others amazon did about the art of fantasy and its basis and really i can't fine any in egypt , i was shocked but i can't find any other source than you .. sorry !
salam ..
m2m

Hey, if we're the only source you have, we're a darn good one. There are so many great people here with vast knowledge tucked away and resources all over the place. You shouldn't feel ashamed or sorry for asking for help when you need it. ^_^ That's what we're here for.

Have you tried, though, using an American or UK search to find the books and references? Different resources become available when you specifically reach for a different server, and that always helps me.

Now, these are all just my interpretations of the terms with an teeny bit of reassurance from Wiki for high fantasy, so others can and probably will have their own that differ from mine. Just thought I'd offer what I could to help clear things up and hope that there's not too many variations from my own ideas to confuse you further. ^_^

[magician2magici]

hello everyone ..

pyan..
the Ace..
Malloriel

thanks to you guys , really helped me alot..

but i have two more ..

-i know tolkien was an inspiring one of high fantasy , one of its poineer like Malloriel said , but did he invented world-buidling we nowadays know ? or he just developped it ?

-in my epic i use both parallel world plus seperate fantasy world in the same set with - ofcourse - the presence of our globe - parallel world to our real world and the parallel is interconnected with entire sepertae world with all meaning of fantasy world si that the three worlds seems to be like one whole world -
i'm asking had anyone written with this complex way before ? and if so what is the name of it ?

salam,,
m2m..

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by magician2magici

i know tolkien was an inspiring one of high fantasy, one of its poineer like Malloriel said, but did he invented world-buidling we nowadays know ?

Not at all. Just as one example, E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros was written in 1922.

Tolkien's worldbuilding was more complex and consistent, but I can't think of anyone since who has achieved that level. It's usually about the level of Eddison and other pre-Tolkien writers.

in my epic i use both parallel world plus seperate fantasy world in the same set with - ofcourse - the presence of our globe - parallel world to our real world and the parallel is interconnected with entire sepertae world with all meaning of fantasy world si that the three worlds seems to be like one whole world -
i'm asking had anyone written with this complex way before ? and if so what is the name of it ?

It's been done lots of time, actually. I don't believe there is a specific name for it.

But to return to the subject of High Fantasy:

High Fantasy need not, in fact, include extensive worldbuilding, although most of the time it does. It deals with the same sort of themes as ancient epics and sagas, and therefore lends itself to a Medieval or Dark Ages type setting. What distinguishes it from Sword and Sorcery, a sub-genre that shares the same sort of setting and often many of the same conventions (you haven't asked about S&S, but I think it should probably be part of this discussion), is that the heroes and heroines of High Fantasy are usually in pursuit of some larger goal, whereas in Sword and Sorcery the goal is usually more personal -- survival, advancement, the recovery of something belonging to oneself -- and though kingdoms may rise and fall in the process that's coincidental. Sword and Sorcery also lends itself to short fiction, or to novels that feature a series of episodic adventures. High Fantasy is usually one long, continuous narrative filling one or more volumes. The protagonists of Sword and Sorcery may also be more roguish than heroic.

Some people distinguish Epic Fantasy from either of these and may throw in Heroic Fantasy for good measure, but the lines are often blurred, because a story can have elements of any or all of these.

[Mammon]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Not at all. Just as one example, E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros was written in 1922.

Tolkien's worldbuilding was more complex and consistent, but I can't think of anyone since who has achieved that level. It's usually about the level of Eddison and other pre-Tolkien writers.

It is possible that Plato made up Atlantis. If that is true, it would be some great worldbuilding, since we still talk about it today. But I guess we'll never know.