A Question about The Case of Charles Dexter Ward

[dr_zoidberg590]

For those of you who have read the story, do we know, or is there any way of guessing, what or who Willet accidently raised from the 'essential salts' in curwen's secret chamber? Im pretty sure its not Yog-Sothoth, since Ward says it's something he has not risen before, and his diary says he has risen Sothoth three times. Im just interested to know what being would not attack Willet but would instantly understand the situation enough to write him a note telling him to kill curwen?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by dr_zoidberg590

For those of you who have read the story, do we know, or is there any way of guessing, what or who Willet accidently raised from the 'essential salts' in curwen's secret chamber? Im pretty sure its not Yog-Sothoth, since Ward says it's something he has not risen before, and his diary says he has risen Sothoth three times. Im just interested to know what being would not attack Willet but would instantly understand the situation enough to write him a note telling him to kill curwen?

His diary? Do you mean the jottings Willett finds in the room where the powder and instruments for using it are found within the circles? Unless I'm mistaken, those jottings are the responses given by whatever being it is which Curwen is questioning when he is "called away" to the asylum, not Curwen's own thoughts and experiences.

As to who it is that Curwen has raised (not what, in this case), Lovecraft doesn't specify, but as he and his cohorts had been raising the great thinkers and wizards of the ages, it is likely some famous long-dead mage that he was "grilling" (or at least threatening to torture) for information. Given that Lovecraft makes a sly mention of "Eliphas Levi", I'd say it's a safe bet he's hinting at said mage being Apollonius of Tyana, who has long had a reputation among occultists (and writers of occult literature or supernatural fiction) as a seer and sorcerer. As for why I think this is the case, consider the following, from his Supernatural Horror in Literature, on the subject of Bulwer's A Strange Story (1862):

In describing certain details of incantations, Lytton was greatly indebted to his amusingly serious occult studies, in the course of which he came in touch with that odd French scholar and cabbalist Alphonse-Louis Constant ("Eliphas Levi"), who claimed to possess the secrets of ancient magic, and to have evoked the spectre of the old Grecian wizard Apoloonius of Tyana, who lived in Nero's time.

-- The Annotated Supernatural Horror in Literature, p. 37

This would also jibe with the rather vague description muttered by Willett as he recovers, as well as the robes and such mentioned, and Lovecraft's choice of the Greek vessels for his description of sorcerous implements in the scene (even though in the novel their use was not restricted to this single case).

[Ningauble]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

His diary? Do you mean the jottings Willett finds in the room where the powder and instruments for using it are found within the circles? Unless I'm mistaken, those jottings are the responses given by whatever being it is which Curwen is questioning when he is "called away" to the asylum, not Curwen's own thoughts and experiences.

As to who it is that Curwen has raised (not what, in this case), Lovecraft doesn't specify, but as he and his cohorts had been raising the great thinkers and wizards of the ages, it is likely some famous long-dead mage that he was "grilling" (or at least threatening to torture) for information. Given that Lovecraft makes a sly mention of "Eliphas Levi", I'd say it's a safe bet he's hinting at said mage being Apollonius of Tyana, who has long had a reputation among occultists (and writers of occult literature or supernatural fiction) as a seer and sorcerer. As for why I think this is the case, consider the following, from his Supernatural Horror in Literature, on the subject of Bulwer's A Strange Story (1862):

-- The Annotated Supernatural Horror in Literature, p. 37

This would also jibe with the rather vague description muttered by Willett as he recovers, as well as the robes and such mentioned, and Lovecraft's choice of the Greek vessels for his description of sorcerous implements in the scene (even though in the novel their use was not restricted to this single case).

Interesting, but i'm not convinced, I'm afraid. I don't think Apollonius would write debased Latin using Saxon miniscules, or whatever they're called in CDW.

[dr_zoidberg590]

interesting, well thankyou for the theory, you've obviously thought it through!

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Ningauble

Interesting, but i'm not convinced, I'm afraid. I don't think Apollonius would write debased Latin using Saxon miniscules, or whatever they're called in CDW.

Not the historical Apollonius, no. But I'd say the connection was on Lovecraft's mind, especially considering his recent work on SHiL at the time....

Incidentally... any ideas on the B. and V. of the jottings in this case?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by dr_zoidberg590

interesting, well thankyou for the theory, you've obviously thought it through!

Thank you... but, as Ningauble shows, there are problems with this as the literal intention Lovecraft had, though I'd still argue that the connection was very much on his mind here. As for which (if any) particular sorcerer of medieval times he had in mind for the actual figure... that one I'm not so certain of. (Sorry for the confusion here... the result of posting after 34 days' work straight, and a weeks' worth of very little sleep....)

[Ningauble]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

Not the historical Apollonius, no. But I'd say the connection was on Lovecraft's mind, especially considering his recent work on SHiL at the time....

The Saxon angle seems to indicate a British origin... Hmm... All we know of this weird creature is that he was quite powerful (he got rid of both Orne and Hutchinson), he had a beard, and he wrote bad Latin using Saxon letters. My guess would have been Merlin, but Merlin (had he existed), would most likely have been a Celt... On the other hand, maybe the Celts didn't create their own letters for transcribing Latin and used those of the Saxons. I know too little and therefore don't know what foot to stand on. But I've seen the Merlin theory proposed somewhere before, so I can't take credit for it.

Incidentally... any ideas on the B. and V. of the jottings in this case?

Nope, not rightaway. "B.F." from Philadelphia is dead simple, though.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Ningauble

The Saxon angle seems to indicate a British origin... Hmm... All we know of this weird creature is that he was quite powerful (he got rid of both Orne and Hutchinson), he had a beard, and he wrote bad Latin using Saxon letters. My guess would have been Merlin, but Merlin (had he existed), would most likely have been a Celt... On the other hand, maybe the Celts didn't create their own letters for transcribing Latin and used those of the Saxons. I know too little and therefore don't know what foot to stand on. But I've seen the Merlin theory proposed somewhere before, so I can't take credit for it.

That's one I hadn't seen -- interesting thought. I don't really know about the written language angle either... though this is something I should know, considering! At any rate, a very interesting candidate, isn't he.... You know, I really should know more about the famous "sorcerers" of the mediaeval period; a fascinating study, I would think. But most of the "authorities" I've seen on the matter are not always reliable about certain matters (Montague Summers being a major example)....

Nope, not rightaway. "B.F." from Philadelphia is dead simple, though.

Um, yes, the "thrifty sage" does rather stand out in that little episode, doesn't he....

[Lobolover]

A person reading HPL asking THIS?Ye be cravin fer madness,aren't ye?