The Riftwar Saga, Disappointing?

[kyektulu]

I think the Riftwar trilogy was fantastic, Feist is probably my favorite fantasy author of all time, but as Nixie says, each to their own.

[Ruin]

The Magician is the first novel I ever read, way back when I was 8, and I found it very difficult at the time. Its simplistic style made it easier but it wasn't until I re-read it two years later that I fully understood it.

Quite surprisingly, despite the volume of novels I trawled through at the time, it has always remained my favorite novel, and to call it unrealistic would be grossly inaccurate. I am a fan of realistic fantasy above all, which has steered me off the course of David Eddings and Robert Jordan (rather towards David Gemmel), and I fell in love with the level of realism, backstory and good handling of the supernatural (where most amature fantasy authors fail).

"they called these invaders by their name for themselves"
Well they did capture someone before the war even started who allowed them to understand who they were.

[Conan]

Originally Posted by nixie

Each to their own, I loved the Riftwar trilogy. Yes it is simplistic and predictable at times but still enjoyable. I wouldn't say the characters lack description. Feist for me has some of the most memorable characters in fantasy, Prince Arutha, Martin Longbow, Amos Trask, Jimmy the Hand, Father Tully, Kulgan, Meechan to name but a few, and I'm only thinking of the Riftwar.

As much as I enjoyed the Farseer books, Fitz most be the most annoying main character ever well maybe not Nevare from her Soldier Son trilogy is just as bad.

Okay, hold on a sec. I think fitz is one of THE best characters in fantasy. He's real. Of course hes going to winge if he is a teenager (who happens to be victim of many assasination attemps). He displays emotion, and gets alot better in the tawny man trilogy, i could go on and on.

More Tomas. Less Arutha.

[devilsgrin]

realism? in an REF book? you can't be serious in thinking that theres any more realism in his works compared to any of the major fantasy authors around. The only author who he has more detail than is Anne McCaffrey (of the majors of course).

While i like some of REF's books, they are simplistic, that back story is tacked-on and the characters can often be at the same time likable and the most irritatingly cliched hack characters imaginable. I truly came to despise Tomas, and Queen Aglaranna was the lamest attempt at a Galadriel impersonation i have yet to come across in fantasy fiction.

for parts of REF's works i liked Erik von Darkmoor, Nakor, Calis and i actually enjoyed some of Miranda's scenes. Jimmy the Hand of course, was perhaps one of the continually most enjoyable... but ALL his scenes and plotlines were as transparent as glass...

the only character i continued to like out of these books was Pug (my favourite scene with Pug, has him basically telling Prince Patrick to f$%k off), and it wasn't until the Empire series with Janny Wurts that another decently constructed character appeared - in the person of Mara of the Acoma (who is one of my all-time favourite characters in any series), and Kevin of Zun.

i agree with Conan, as much as Fitz is often frustrating, he's one of the most REAL characters ever set into a fantasy novel. Nevare is essentially a very similar character, but again is another real person, not some two-dimensional cut-out of a fantasy cliche - which almost every character in an REF book is. Realism is Robin Hobb's mainstay - especially in regard to her characters. they are very real for their world, and all their actions are in synch with their characters. Realism is certainly not a feature of any of REF's characters.

[Hilarious Joke]

I like REF's Riftwar saga as a rollicking adventure with some great characters. Magician was the first fantasy I ever read (other than Narnia) and so I owe a lot to the guy. I will agree with devilsgrin that Tomas was an excruciatingly boring and two-dimensional character, and in fact that the elves were cliched and disappointing (I am currently doing a reread, up to Darkness at Sethanon).

I will also agree with Conan and Devilsgrin regarding Fitz, who I think is also a great character because he always tries to do the right thing, no matter what the cost to him. Nevare is similar, but in very different circumstances so its still fascinating. I'm a big Hobb fan, I like her better than Feist.

[Ruin]

The elves were dissapointing, it's true. However no fantasy major character has ever been realistic. They almost all follow the pauper-to-prince or kingly redemtion storyline, and both of these lend at least some unrealism to the story.

Having detail is not the same as having realism, the two are very much seperate. You can tell the story of WWII in a paragraph and it would still be as realistic as the book-long version.

I find the back-story intricate and well thought out (especially how it ties in world to world), and the simplicism is a boon rather then a fault.

I have to say that the Empire series was the favorite of my REF books barring Magician. After Magician the Riftwar books tend to move on to a far more epic scale (with the exception of the princes of blood and king's buccaneer (sp) which I thoroughly enjoyed), and this caused an alienation from the characters. I was especially disspointed with the anticlimatic death of Jimmy the Hand.

[Grimward]

Originally Posted by Ruin

However no fantasy major character has ever been realistic. They almost all follow the pauper-to-prince or kingly redemtion storyline, and both of these lend at least some unrealism to the story.

( Fair Disclosure: I'm a fan of Feist's, but an even bigger fan of Wurts, so you may reasonably infer some bias here.... )

I also liked Jimmy the Hand. Among Feist's characters, he was pretty hard to top, although I found Roo Avery in the subsequent Serpentwar series almost as enjoyable (after a slow start, character-wise). In both series, I enjoyed the way that Feist wove his separate world-level ( Jimmy the Hand, Avery, etc.) and universal (Pug, Macros, the Hall of Worlds, etc.) level plots together. I didn't get the same level of entertainment from the Conclave of Shadows books, though....

As an aside (and If I may!), would suggest that you pick up Wurts' current epic, Wars of Light and Shadow, starting with Curse of the Mistwraith if you'd care for a departure from pauper-to-prince and kingly redemption. Although this tale is about two princes, neither falls into either of the above storylines in their subsequent development, and while it OF COURSE is a fantasy, much of the character depiction and action description is well-grounded in realism. The granularity and detail in this story is extensive, so allow a few chapters are necessary for Wurts to set the stage and get the underpinnings in place.

[Conan]

Originally Posted by Hilarious Joke

I will agree with devilsgrin that Tomas was an excruciatingly boring and two-dimensional character, and in fact that the elves were cliched and disappointing (I am currently doing a reread, up to Darkness at Sethanon).

Well Tomas is my favourite character, because he has alot of potential to be a great character.

[Rahl Windsong]

Magician being one of the first fantasy novels I ever read, it still holds a very dear place in my heart and it always will. It was stories like this that got me hooked on fantasy and I can still vividly remember characters like Tomas, Pug, Jimmy the Hand, and many many more.

Also one of my favorite all time computer roleplaying games was the one by Dynamix, Betrayal at Krondor.

[Grimward]

*Does double take on, well, double takes!*

Gah! Attack of the twin avatars (at least as of this date)! I liked Magician too, Rahl, and I liked Tomas' character in that first book, Conan. The imperiousness of Ashen-Shugar took over, though, in later books, and I found him a little too over-bearing for my liking. Then again, he's part Valheru; what should one expect?