Help me come up with four "elements" of the mind

[Spectrum]

Hello.

I am writing a dark fantasy series. As I described in my (old) thread about "evil virtues", one aspect of my world are the sixteen "Sephiroth": spiritual, godlike creatures who each allegedly embody a noble virtue, but whose true purpose is to mentally enslave and control the adherents of their religion.

I want to have the sixteen Sephiroth divided into four "elements". Originally I was going with the classical elements of air/fire/earth/water, but I've decided that that's too cheesy and unoriginal, and I want to do something cooler.

So I want to make up four "elements" of my own. Now, since the Sephiroth are associated with the mind and different mental "virtues", I thought it would be cool if I could make the elements something mental, too.

My idea is that the elements should be four somewhat fundamental aspects of the universe, and especially aspects of the mind. Y'know, four different things that sort of "make up" a humanoid mind (or "soul", if you will).

It is important that each "element" must not be inherently good or evil. For instance, "love" or "hate" are not acceptable. Rather, each of them should be something natural and neutral; something that can be twisted and used for evil, but painted as something good and virtuous.

One idea I have is this:

Passion: The deep, heartfelt belief in a cause and the burning desire to fight for it.
Eye/Vision: The Eye lets you perceive and interpret the world: In a "true"/"good" way, or as a veil of lies, seeing only what you want to see (or what your masters want you to see).
Voice: The Voice that lets you communicate with your fellow beings, to offer wisdom and comfort, or to condemn and spread hate and lies.
Tears: Tears of joy, or tears that release sorrow and help you deal with it. Or tears that confirm your sorrow and only serve to pull you deeper into a mire of suffering.

Another schema might be that of four basic emotions:

Anger: Defense, expansion.
Fear/pain: Self-preservation.
Hunger: Self-improvement.
Lust: Procreation. This one can be sublimated into an urge to create other things than progeny, such as art, or an empire.

Can anyone suggest something? Replacements, improvements or better names?

Thanks in advance.

[pyan]

I appreciate you're using "Sephiroth" in in a similar sense to the way it is used in the Kabbalah...but I'm afraid my first thought was "Final Fantasy VII".

Do you not think that it may cause some confusion?

[Commonmind]

Yes, unfortunately Pyan is right. Even non-fans of the series have come to associate the name "Sephiroth" with the iconic game character from the Final Fantasy series. No matter how different the material, comparisons will be drawn and using the name will likely cause some readers to shy away from the work -- either because they're confused by the reference, or they see the use of the name as a gimmick to garner sales. Readers don't like feeling drawn in by cheap hooks, they think it insults their intelligence -- or so they tell me (but they also haven't returned my Laserdisc copy of Back to the Future, so I'm okay with them feeling insulted at the moment).

I know that's discouraging, but much in the same way no author would use the name "Potter" as the last name for one of their main characters, you're probably best looking for something derivative or similar to (in meaning or spelling) the name without using it in its current form -- which screams fire walking, silvery-haired bad guy with an aversion to making friends.

[Grimward]

What's in a Name? Wiser heads than mine will decide that one, so I will stick to the request. How about having each element represent a mental "discipline", so to speak?

Thrust: Aggressive response or preemptive stance

Acquire: A catch, "listening" to hear and assimilate

Shield: Perimeter Inviolate, Enclosure for self

Disperse: A broadcast, or distribution of somethings, be they thoughts, messages, other....

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by pyan

I appreciate you're using "Sephiroth" in in a similar sense to the way it is used in the Kabbalah...but I'm afraid my first thought was "Final Fantasy VII".

Do you not think that it may cause some confusion?

Hm, OK, thanks, I'll keep that it mind. I'll probably just add a note about it in the glossary.

Originally Posted by Grimward

What's in a Name? Wiser heads than mine will decide that one, so I will stick to the request. How about having each element represent a mental "discipline", so to speak?

Thrust: Aggressive response or preemptive stance

Acquire: A catch, "listening" to hear and assimilate

Shield: Perimeter Inviolate, Enclosure for self

Disperse: A broadcast, or distribution of somethings, be they thoughts, messages, other....

Hm, this might be an idea. I'll consider it. Thanks.

[Lith]

The whole religion being used as an enslavement device is overplayed (in my never-humble opinion).

Lust: Procreation. This one can be sublimated into an urge to create other things than progeny, such as art, or an empire.

Except that Lust is really more akin to Hunger or Gluttony than any desire to create life, which would usually be called Love, not Lust. And I might scrap it entirely in favor of Joy, which hasn't made your list.

Sephiroth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You want these beings to embody noble virtues, but you also want them to be morally neutral? Or am I missing something? Because noble implies goodness.

Sixteen is rather a large number to work with- unless as you suggested, you break it down into four sets of four. Holy numbers usually reach no higher than 8 (the 8-fold path, Islam's 8, etc.), because simplicity is often a virtue. (Yes, there are numbers higher than 8 that are considered special or holy, but usually only as parts or arrangements of smaller numbers.)

[Spectrum]

Thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by Lith

The whole religion being used as an enslavement device is overplayed (in my never-humble opinion).

Hm, well, I like it. Maybe I've listened to too much black and death metal. :P

Originally Posted by Lith

Except that Lust is really more akin to Hunger or Gluttony than any desire to create life, which would usually be called Love, not Lust.

Sexual lust exists for the purpose of procreation. It's a psychological mechanism to encourage creatures to create offspring.

Some psychological theories claim that much or all art springs from sublimated physical desires, sexual or otherwise.

The underlying philosophy of my fiction is nihilistic and misanthropic, so in this case, the primal mental "element" should be a selfish lust to spawn more of your own kind. When "Lust" is wrapped in some morality and good publicity, it becomes "Love".

(Note that the philosophy of my fiction is different from, albeit coloured by, my real beliefs. My aim is to create a work of fiction that is very dark and evil.)

Originally Posted by Lith

And I might scrap it entirely in favor of Joy, which hasn't made your list.

I'm not sure about "Joy". It sounds too good. Recall that I need something that can be used for good and evil alike. Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by Lith

Sephiroth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, those dudes are part of the inspiration for my work, albeit indirectly. I actually got the idea from the role-playing game Kult, which uses a concept very similar to the one I described.

Originally Posted by Lith

You want these beings to embody noble virtues, but you also want them to be morally neutral? Or am I missing something? Because noble implies goodness.

Yeah, maybe I didn't explain that so well.

I want the four elements to be neutral things that can be used for good or evil. The Sephiroth are really evil, but they masquerade as good. As such, each Sephirah should nominally embody a noble virtue (a "good" twisting of the primal element), while in truth the Sephirah actually represents an "evil" twisting of the primal element.

Does this make sense?

[Harpo]

Perhaps "memory" might be one of the four? Memories can be either good or bad or neutral, and of course memory is all in the mind.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Harpo

Perhaps "memory" might be one of the four? Memories can be either good or bad or neutral, and of course memory is all in the mind.

Ooo, yes. And it could be used to brainwash people and install false memories. Good suggestion. Thanks.

[Urlik]

thought
memory
mind
self

[Quokka]

memory-knowledge (when you think about it aren't these pretty much the same thing?)
emotion
thought
instinct

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Urlik

thought
memory
mind
self

What is the difference between "thought" and "mind"? And what is "self"?

Originally Posted by Quokka

memory-knowledge (when you think about it aren't these pretty much the same thing?)
emotion
thought
instinct

What is the difference between "emotion" and "instinct"?

Thanks for the replies.

[Urlik]

thought is a process
mind is an abstract place where memory and thought occur
self is the awareness of thought, memory and mind