30.02: Fires of Pompeii

[Lenny]

It was Article 15 that Rose tried to use, yes? Some sort of peaceful talking clause?

[Dr.Jackson]

Well, Doctor Who shooting abroad again, and this time, it actually had something to do with the plot! Very impressive on screen, well worth it, rather than 'an expensive set in the Mumbles' .

This episode was more like the Who episodes of old, at least I thought so. The Doctor giving a history lesson, concentrating on seeing the big picture, or apparently all the possible big pictures, and helping cause a well known historical disaster - after all, he practically caused the Great Fire of London.
Donna helped him see one of the little pictures here, and in so doing, didn't he play God in a way? He did decide really who should live and who should die in the sense of Pompeii. Save an arbitrary family, condemn the rest to death, wouldn't that plague your conscience more than making the flat decision of Pompeii or the world?
I did like the understated grief and guilt that David played on The Doctors' choice. It shows that he cares as much as Donna about letting so many die, but is more used to it, so isn't as externally emotive.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Jackson

Save an arbitrary family, condemn the rest to death, .

Ah, but if Pompeii is a fixed point on the time-lines, as the Doctor said several times, surely he'd already saved that family, and they weren't an arbitrary family at all...
In which case, saving them was necessary to the time-line, and he didn't break the rules at all...in fact, he had to save them to make Pompeii a fixed point on the time-line in the first place!!


Does that make sense?

[Ursa major]

We were back to the shaking sets of old; but at least it was part of the plot, this time. (The sets looked rather good, in fact. Were they borrowed from another production?)

I rather enjoyed this episode, with its attempts to deal with the fundamental moral issues that a time-traveller has to face: who to save and who to leave behind; and who to actively condemn to death.

[chopper]

the sets, as i understand, were part of the HBO Rome sets - and they did look the business!

[Dr.Jackson]

Originally Posted by pyan

Ah, but if Pompeii is a fixed point on the time-lines, as the Doctor said several times, surely he'd already saved that family, and they weren't an arbitrary family at all...
In which case, saving them was necessary to the time-line, and he didn't break the rules at all...in fact, he had to save them to make Pompeii a fixed point on the time-line in the first place!!


Does that make sense?

It does, but I've already had this argument that if he knew he was going to save them, why did he need Donna to shout at him to do so? That's the only bit I don't fully get. Perhaps she convinced him and he saw that this was how history should play out? It wasn't a breaking of the rules, more of a slight bend, or perhaps it was a test, but it didn't look like it. Pompeii was a fixed point because of the eruption, maybe the stories of it came from the people he saved.
If I don't make sense, sorry, I always get confused with chaos theory in time-lines.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Jackson

It does, but I've already had this argument that if he knew he was going to save them, why did he need Donna to shout at him to do so? That's the only bit I don't fully get. Perhaps she convinced him and he saw that this was how history should play out? It wasn't a breaking of the rules, more of a slight bend, or perhaps it was a test, but it didn't look like it. Pompeii was a fixed point because of the eruption, maybe the stories of it came from the people he saved.
If I don't make sense, sorry, I always get confused with chaos theory in time-lines.

No, that makes perfect sense, because he wouldn't have picked Donna up unless he needed her to shout at him and convince him to save them....and so on, ad infinitum..(that's Celtic, you see..)

Changing the subject hurriedly before he gets bogged down into free-will v determinism...why did the TARDIS land 125 miles from where the Doctor thought they were landing? Are we going back to the lack-of-fine-control days, when the Doctor was as surprised as anyone when he opened the door?

[Rane Longfox]

Originally Posted by Lenny

It was Article 15 that Rose tried to use, yes? Some sort of peaceful talking clause?

Yes, but she was pretty much making that up as she went along to sound official, so I wouldn't put too much on that.

Originally Posted by chopper

the sets, as i understand, were part of the HBO Rome sets - and they did look the business!

Ah, that explains why they looked so familiar!! Excellent


Overall I was a bit dissapointed with this episode. I mean, it was ok, but an evil race that can be defeated by simply throwing a bucket of water at them? Not really up to the standard we're used to. Nothing special, this series needs to pick up a bit in the next few episodes I think.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by Rane Longfox

I mean, it was ok, but an evil race that can be defeated by simply throwing a bucket of water at them? Not really up to the standard we're used to.

Signs of Doctor Who copying Hollywood, perhaps.

[PTeppic]

There did seem to be a lot of the Pyroviles, so you might need an awful lot of water for all of them. Without being burnt alive by their impressive breath problems (for which a Tic-Tac won't help)

[Ursa major]

Not even the Tic Tac's in the adverts, the one's that look like giant Adipose?

[Rane Longfox]

I think eating blobs of fat would probably only exascerbate the situation

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Rane Longfox

I mean, it was ok, but an evil race that can be defeated by simply throwing a bucket of water at them?

Have you never seen 'The Wizard of Oz'?

[cocob3an-xx]

haha i learnt from the same textbook as you.
funny seeing Caecilius, Metella and Quintus again .
i don't remember them having a daughter though...
my latin teacher will have a laugh when i tell her...
cocob3an-xx

[PTeppic]

To expand on my previous, the implication from Confidential was that it was RTD who learned Latin using those books, and he put the names into the script as an in-joke...