New Wave SF

[j. d. worthington]

The idea of this thread is to open a discussion (for those who have read and have found of interest) on the movement known as the New Wave SF, which (pedantically speaking) lasted from ca. 1964-1972, though such specific dates are highly debatable, as many writers heavily involved with the movement (or, indeed, responsible for helping to create the movement) were already writing the sorts of things that would come to be known by this title; while much of the same concerns and literary approach has remained a large part of the writings not only of those concerned with the original movement, but those who have come after.

Be that as it may, my interest here is to see if anyone is interested in bringing in their own favorites from the movement, be it shorter works or novels, and to give a little information on what they find so interesting or exciting about them.

Contrary to my usual practice, I won't begin this one with preferences of my own, but rather will join in the discussion as it goes along... if it goes along....

And for those not familiar with the movement, there's this:

New Wave (science fiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I have some strong disagreements with several statements here, but it will do for a general idea to open with....

[Quokka]

I really don't know anything about the movement (and I'm still trying to get it clear exactly what defines it) but I'm not suprised Michael Moorecock was an integral part of it, having only read a couple of his books he definitely takes a different approach not just within a story but in how he sets up the connections between them.

I noticed Ursula K Le Guin gets a mention and she certainly seems to fit the change of focus from space and technology to the personal and social and so if that's the case she's a clear favourite for me (sorry I don't seem to be able to do a post lately without mentioning Le Guin ) but I was suprised to see Herbert's Dune get a mention, even with the inner exploration by Paul and the Bene Gesserit isn't this somewhat of a 'traditional' science fiction novel? Or is it included in New Wave because of it being more 'literary'?

It's yet another reminder that until I start including more short stories in my reading I'll be missing out on a lot of great science fiction.

[the smiling weirwood]

I always thought Dune was more of a space opera than new wave.

[gully_foyle]

Perhaps Dune is recognised because it straddled the so called New Wave and Space Opera. The themes of internalisation and drug induced psychosis in Dune are in keeping with the New Wave. Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness and The Lathe of Heaven fit the definition quite well. I have not read alot of Moorcock, but the little I have seen suggests he is a leading luminary in this genre. But I would say that Philip K Dick is probably the primary proponent of the New Wave. Even the books that are not written under the influence of drugs are still one heck of a trip.

Overall, while only just becoming aware of the genre, thanks J.D., it makes sense in the context of the times. Drugs and changing mores were leading to experimentation in everything, art, music and seemingly SF. I will have to keep an eye out for the Dangerous Visions anthology.

[Urlik]

I found this part of the wiki page interesting

The content of New Wave rejected the core concerns of traditional science fiction ("outer space"), in favour of a focus on taboo breaking and a more people focused approach ("innerspace"). Central concerns of the New Wave (and of William S. Burroughs, before it) were a fascination both with mass media and with entropy, the idea that the universe (and human societies) will irrevocably run down.

mainly because that can be applied to a lot of Heinlein's writing and Moorcock is an open critic of RAH and his views, yet Stranger in a Strange Land could almost be a fore runner to some of the New Wave themes

SiaSL

his 1961 novel Stranger in a Strange Land put him in the unexpected role of pied piper to the sexual revolution and the counterculture, and through this book he was credited with popularizing the notion of polyamory, or responsible nonmonogamy.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by gully_foyle

I will have to keep an eye out for the Dangerous Visions anthology.

Actually, there are two; the first published in 1967, the second in 1972 -- and even in that interim, one can see a huge change in the feel of the writing. Both, however, have an enormous amount of stunning material:

Dangerous Visions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, Dangerous Visions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And, for that matter, if you can find a hardbound copy (I prefer this because the pb had some editing done on the introduction which alters the feel of it considerably) of Judith Merrill's England Swings SF, you'll get an even better idea of the British side of the New Wave (albeit she did take an extreme view with this anthology):

England swings SF; stories of speculative fiction. [WorldCat.org]

Also, one of the best books on the subject is Colin Greenland's The Entropy Exhibition: Michael Moorcock and the British 'New Wave' in Science Fiction. a quirky, entertaining, sometimes acerbic, but always insightful and intelligent look at the movement, its context, and its achievements.

[clovis-man]

I always seem to miss out on the proper taxonomy of what I read. Things I read during the "new wave" period were both Dangerous Vision volumes, lots of Brian Aldiss (e.g., The Dark Light Years, Greybeard), plenty of Zelazny, plenty of Delaney (Babel-17 and Dhalgren were favorites), as much LeGuin as I could squeeze in, lots of John Brunner (Stand on Zanzibar being the benchmark) and, of course, everything written by Frank Herbert (How many have read Dragon in the Sea?)

But I never knew I was reading "new wave". I just devoured the stuff I liked. Dang. Now I feel like I'm "old wave"!

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by clovis-man

I always seem to miss out on the proper taxonomy of what I read. Things I read during the "new wave" period were both Dangerous Vision volumes, lots of Brian Aldiss (e.g., The Dark Light Years, Greybeard), plenty of Zelazny, plenty of Delaney (Babel-17 and Dhalgren were favorites), as much LeGuin as I could squeeze in, lots of John Brunner (Stand on Zanzibar being the benchmark) and, of course, everything written by Frank Herbert (How many have read Dragon in the Sea?)

But I never knew I was reading "new wave". I just devoured the stuff I liked. Dang. Now I feel like I'm "old wave"!

On the Aldiss... they left out some other titles of his that were definitely "New Wave", such as Barefoot in the Head, The Saliva Tree (the story collection), etc. Of course, one of the most "new wavish" of his stories is "The Girl and the Robot with Flowers", not to mention "Man in His Time"....

As for PKD... I don't think I'd call him the "primary proponent" of the New Wave; I'm not sure there is such, really. The New Wave was a very disparate movement, and the American and British branches of it were often vastly different. Moorcock was certainly more of "the major prophet" of the movement than Ellison, though Ellison had a huge influence on it, nonetheless (as did Judy Merrill, who saw J. G. Ballard as perhaps the quintessential "New Wave" writer). For one thing, Moorcock, as editor of New Worlds, was the one who actively set the movement in opposition to the older brands of sf (though not as thoroughly as the manifestoes of the day would have one believe). (And there's another set of books -- often not that difficult to find -- to look up to get an idea of the variety of the New Wave; Moorcock's Best of and Best SF Stories from New Worlds, of which there were several paperback volumes; not to mention the New Worlds Quarterly volumes, which are actually paperback issues of the magazine.)

However, in regard to PKD, I'd say he was a very important voice in the New Wave, just as Phillip Jose Farmer was, or John Sladek, or Thomas M. Disch (Camp Concentration and 334 especially), or Pamela Zoline, with her "The Heat Death of the Universe", which was one of the most anthologized of the stories to come out of that movement. This is also the movement that saw the rise of a talent such as James Tiptree, Jr., whose brilliant work remains as stunning and troubling now as it ever was.

By the way... just to show how times have changed: New Worlds was given a grant from the Arts Council (a small one, but nonetheless); this was seriously endangered when a question was raised in Parliament if said Council should be supporting the publishing of "pornography" -- said pornography being Spinrad's Bug Jack Barron and Disch's Camp Concentration....)

CM: don't feel alone, m'friend. Except for the mention of the term in the aforesaid anthologies, I wasn't really aware of it being distinct from other types of sf at the time; I just avidly read it and found it stimulating and exciting because of the fact they seemed to be addressing a lot of the very concerns I was becoming aware of myself, having hit my adolescence (and therefore more of a social awareness) just about the time I encountered a great deal of this writing....

[Durandal]

Interesting discussion so far -- I haven't read much from the New Wave movement (several by PKD, a couple each by Aldiss and Ellison, and of course, Dune), but I'm sort of intending to expand my knowledge of this era. I've got Stand on Zanzibar on my to-read pile, along with The Lathe of Heaven and Dhalgren and.... well, probably something else I'm forgetting.

All of this stuff is from before my time, but I've been fairly diligent about trying to get a grip on what came before in the genres I love, and the New Wave is certainly a big part of that, especially in light of the territory being staked out now by the New Weird writers.

I find there's a point you can reach in any kind of writing where there's too much emphasis on experimentation, and at times the New Wave seems to head in that direction for me. I read Aldiss' Report on Probability A and found it absolutely maddening at times. Though at other times, I found it fascinating. It reminded me in some ways of Alain Robbe-Grillet, whose "new novel" stuff was very fascinating to me in my pretentious college days.

At any rate, it's a subgenre that I'm definitely interested in reading more of -- but one that would drive me insane if I read too much of. If that makes sense...

[iansales]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

By the way... just to show how times have changed: New Worlds was given a grant from the Arts Council (a small one, but nonetheless); this was seriously endangered when a question was raised in Parliament if said Council should be supporting the publishing of "pornography" -- said pornography being Spinrad's Bug Jack Barron and Disch's Camp Concentration....)

Things haven't changed that much. A few years ago, the police raided Interzone - which also had an Arts Council grant - after someone complained that a story by Gwyneth Jones in one issue featured paedophilia. The story was an excerpt from her novel, Bold As Love.

[Taltos]

Originally Posted by clovis-man

(How many have read Dragon in the Sea?)

I have ... so what ?

Actually - the article left me wondering about one thing - I could understand all names but one ... what has Harrison to do with it ? Can't recall any of his novels that would fit into this - some stories perhaps - can anyone elaborate ?

[Connavar]

I dont really care for naming the changes that came with the authors and their stories mentioned but i do like the type of SF stories that people like PKD,Moorcock wrote.

I thought Dune was great too.

Im gonna order Dangerous Visions, one of the two collections to see if Ellison is as interesting as he sounds.



Wasnt Samuel Delaney part of the so called Wave ?

[iansales]

I'm not sure what Dune is doing in that wikipedia article. It never struck me as New Wave.

[Connavar]

I can see why people mentioned Dune both in wiki and in this thread.

I mean atleast in the first book you cant get a story more focused on the people approach and not the outer space thing. Thats what i liked most in Dune. The social part of Arrakis and its people.


I mean if you havent read the book you expect a more epic space opera thing and not whats in the actual story.

[chrispenycate]

I was of course brought up in the New Wave (surfing it, I suppose) subscribing to "New Worlds" magazine (one of the core publications, at least in England) from the very early sixties. For me, it was when style began to become more important than ideas, human relationships more dominant than technical wizardry; I didn't entirely approve. Oh, I've nothing against something being well written, far from it, and I suppose it was a good idea when characters advanced beyond oral reproduction, but it was trying to become "Literature" with a capital "L", which apparently involved it becoming less enjoyable to read (it can't be "Art" if you can understand it – carried over to films, paintings, sculpture…)
Of course there were some great authors (some of them who had been writing it before knowing the name) but the copy authors were getting Ballard's incomprehensibility without his almost hallucinogenic imagery, the form without the function.
Still, quite a few of the stories have stuck in my head until now, so it can't have been all bad.