The House Of Commons - What A Joke....

[thaddeus6th]

Mosaix, I wasn't aiming for a veil of any kind, let alone a thin one

There are bad apples on all sides but the governing party is responsible for the postal voting sham, and I see no reason to blame Tories, Lib Dems or Plaid Cymru for Labour's failed system.

[mosaix]

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

Mosaix, I wasn't aiming for a veil of any kind, let alone a thin one

There are bad apples on all sides but the governing party is responsible for the postal voting sham, and I see no reason to blame Tories, Lib Dems or Plaid Cymru for Labour's failed system.

Thadd, changing the voting system ain't going to enable us to distinguish between one greedy b*****d and the next. We may end up with a different mix of greedy b*****ds but they'll still be greedy b*****ds when all's said and done.

That's not to say the current system is ok, but it just ain't going to make any difference to the outcome of the this thread.

The only change that will make a difference is the publishing of the detail of all MPs expenditure - that's the reason why they are resisting it so much. Many MPs may be a bit dim but they ALL recognise a gravy train when they see one.

[the smiling weirwood]

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

I'm more concerned about the widespread and difficult to detect electoral fraud now possible because of Labour's pathetic postal voting system.

We conveniently avoid that in America by having the graveyards elect people to office. Did you know they don't even check to make sure someone is dead as long as they are registered to vote?

[thaddeus6th]

Hmm. I wonder if that's where Mugabe got his unique following in Zimbabwe from...

Mosaix, obviously we must have proper accountability for expenses (perhaps surprisingly the Lords are far better than the Commons in this regard) but without a sound electoral system we won't even have a government we can be sure actually has a mandate.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

Hmm. I wonder if that's where Mugabe got his unique following in Zimbabwe from...

Presumambly this is why some people are regarded as dead certs for re-election.

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

Mosaix, obviously we must have proper accountability for expenses (perhaps surprisingly the Lords are far better than the Commons in this regard) ....

But I read this week that daily expenses could be claimed without receipt up to a value of £308. (I realise this isn't quite the same problem as with the Commons as members of the House of Lords do not receive pay as such (unless, I suppose, they are government ministers).

Crisis Lords meetings over sleaze allegations | Politics | The Guardian

Unless I read it wrong, it looked like the first time a special sleaze committee was to be called into action, the powers that be thought they would look into it themselves. (I hope they're going to be transparent, but when I see the name "privileges committee" I wonder whose privileges are to be protected. I suspect I've become too suspicious in my old age.)

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

...but without a sound electoral system we won't even have a government we can be sure actually has a mandate.

Well said.

[thaddeus6th]

I saw Peter Oborne's excellent Dispatches about expenses in Parliament a few months ago, and I think he said the Lords must prove a receipt for everything, as it should be. The Commons seem, perversely, to have a grandiose view of themselves whereas the Lords are generally far more down to earth.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by thaddeus6th

I saw Peter Oborne's excellent Dispatches about expenses in Parliament a few months ago, and I think he said the Lords must prove a receipt for everything, as it should be. The Commons seem, perversely, to have a grandiose view of themselves whereas the Lords are generally far more down to earth.

I didn't see that programme, unfortunately. Short of checking with the powers-that-be, I don't know which (Guardian or Oborne) is correct on this.

More likely, they are talking about different expenses. (See, I can take a balanced view when I really have to. )