What actually makes it....

[Ishar]

Fantasy or SciFi?

What is it about a book that shouts at you either of these two?

If you read a book is in a certain genre what do you expect to see in it?

What is it that makes you decide whether something suits the genre or not?

I know this may bring about some long answers, and I say, BRING IT ON! I've just been interested in these questions recently when thinking about writing a short story for a competition. I came up with an idea, wrote a plot up, sat back and looked at it and went, "well, I think its SciFi, but will other people?". I'm not going into what I wrote, just wondering what other people think of the subject.

If you like, mention sub-genres. Obviously there may be a bit of difference when you see a sub-genre. I just want to know the kinds of things people expect to be reading about when they see something in the Fantasy/SciFi sections of their book stores, before they read the blurb.

[Maxwell Jennison]

Science fiction - Some anomaly, usually advancements in technology but always something that can be explained or is thought to be explainable through science (realistically or not), that changes society or culture from what we consider normal to something nearly unrecognizable. Generally set from modern time to far future.

Fantasy - Same as science fiction, save for one exception. Rather than being explained through science, it's explained through some other fashion (mysticism/magic, folklore, happenstance, religion, tradition, etc). Generally set from far into the past to modern day.

[Interference]

Sciffy: Where science reality or hypothesis is integral to the plot.

Fantasy: Where the warping or abandonment of known reality is integral to the plot.

[The Ace]

Originally Posted by Interference

Sciffy: Where science reality or hypothesis is integral to the plot.

Fantasy: Where the warping or abandonment of known reality is integral to the plot.

I like that one, Interference. Of course, in both cases, it works best when the protgonists are very human and the reader can relate to their aspirations, or, at least, understand them.

[chrispenycate]

I suspect that, as much as anything else, it is the style in which it is written. I've read SF about vampires, werewolves, psi abilities (definitely magic talents) and ancient empires, alongside fantasy featuring time travel, interplanetary exploration, research and development (more scientific method than much SF) and steam trains.

Yes, science fiction is frequently set in the future (near to distant) and tends towards an optimistic view of the possibilities (but any SF reader could bark out a dozen exceptions to this rule without stopping to think about it.
Fantasy has a tendency towards an earlier golden age, when things were more advanced, and "rightful" (god-chosen?) ruling families, but enough contrary examples exist to fill a library.

When you read "The magic goes away" by Larry Niven, it's undoubtedly fantasy, all the elements (the Warlock, demons, incantations and spells) are there; but it's written in such an analytic, logical, scientific fashion that it's sometimes difficult to be sure.

I'm convinced it would be possible to write the same story, with the same characters and events happening, as SF, fantasy or mainstream thriller, and make each one work. I doubt it will be me that tries.

[Interference]

Originally Posted by The Ace

I like that one, Interference. Of course, in both cases, it works best when the protgonists are very human and the reader can relate to their aspirations, or, at least, understand them.

Thank you, Ace, and of course you're right and I couldn't agree mroe. (About the humanity aspect, not about the quality of my suggestion.) (Although .....)

[chrispenycate]

Originally Posted by The Ace

I like that one, Interference. Of course, in both cases, it works best when the protgonists are very human and the reader can relate to their aspirations, or, at least, understand them.

In science fiction (and to a lesser extent in fantasy) a large percentage of the most memorable characters haven't been human at all, or even humanoid.

Some of them have not even been living creatures under the general definition of the term.

[Interference]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

In science fiction (and to a lesser extent in fantasy) a large percentage of the most memorable characters haven't been human at all, or even humanoid.

Some of them have not even been living creatures under the general definition of the term.

Absolutely, Chris, although a fictional character behaving as a human, need not necessitate his being a human being. Most fiction relies on the author's, and through his guidance the readers', appreciation of human goals and human emotions. C3P0 exhibits some very real human characteristics, even though we are told he is an it (robot) and furthermore an it that was created in a galaxy far, far away. His role in Star Wars was, as Ace puts it, "very human and the reader can relate to (his) aspirations, or, at least, understand them."

[Urlik]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

In science fiction (and to a lesser extent in fantasy) a large percentage of the most memorable characters haven't been human at all, or even humanoid.

Some of them have not even been living creatures under the general definition of the term.

would that be a reference to a Ray Bradbury story by any chance?

I recently read The One Who Waits, which your post is a good description of the protagonist.

a beautiful story, but if it was written from the human point of view, it would be a horror story on a par with The Thing or Alien

[Teresa Edgerton]

Thread moved to SFF Lounge.

[Quokka]

Similar to whats been said already, maybe:

Sci Fi: an altered reality that is presented as having been achieved using theories and/or an understanding of science as described by the author.

Fantasy: An altered reality that in some way incorporates what would be considered impossible.

Which of course doesnt cover everything, Le Guin's Lathe of Heaven would fit both definitions but is usually considered Sci Fi.

[Sar]

Can they be combined? I don't know, but I really like it when the "magic" in fantasy has concrete rules that are not actually scientific but are very logical. I get bored when the "magic" is just some thing that happens by accident, and somehow solves the conflict of the story.

I also like it when there are "magical" things or characters that exist in a scientific world of starships and fusion. That is actually closer to reality I think. There are things out there today in the real world that still cannot be explained, even with the technology that exists.

[Ice fyre]

I think that Sci-fi and fantasy all quite simply fit into a sort of Fantastic overview, as far as I'm concerened Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Horror all share to greater or lesser degree a fantastical element.

The zombie shambling round the corner the vampire entering through the window as mist to the cyborg striding down the starship corridor nodding to the alien officer preparing for battle with an implaciable foe, and everything in between. This all boils down to fantastic elements.

Also as scifi fans I feel we use this medium to search for answers and to pose questions to ourselves and others. We use this medium as others use other forms of fiction. which makes me even madder when some eedjit turns to me and says "its not really relevant to the real world" which I've had a few times.