Writing SF/F short stories - useful for novelists?

[Ian Whates]

Ouch!

You have my sympathies.

[Doctor Sax]

Originally Posted by ctg

Thanks, that's more informative answer then Doctor Sax's one.

Apologies. I was going for opinionated rather than informative.

[ctg]

I forgive you doctor Sax, and I hope that you forgive me whatever I have done to upset you.

[Doctor Sax]

??? I'm a very difficult person to upset. PM me if I've been horrid.

[Locksmith]

Originally Posted by lin robinson

And yeah, I guess running sprints would be better marathon training than laying on a couch.

I've kind of missed this thread before now, but this analogy has me thinking. It's basically being used to say short stories and novels are different beasts.

It interests me, because it relates to something I do know something about - running - and I think there is a good analogy in here.

I'm a reasonably competitive marathon runner - 3h09 PB (still working on it though). I fully concur, running a marathon and running a sprint are different, but the thing is, guess how you get better at marathon running?

Running marathons? Nope. In fact it's counter-productive. The exhaustion and muscle breakdown from running a marathon outweigh any training benefits.
Running long slow distances shorter than a marathon certainly has its place, but if you want to run sub-3h marathons you've got to do sprint training and short races (5k, 10k). Most marathon runners start their season improving their time over 1k (around 1/40th of the distance of a marathon).
But hang on, they're different beasts. Well, that's the thing (and where the analogy holds IMO). Ultimately they're the same essential skills. And what's more the discipline of running shorter races and sprint training teaches you to prepare for races, to experience the beginning, middle and end of races, pushing yourself when you're down, working through hard patches and ultimately comparing yourself with your peers.

Writing short stories and novels are clearly different, but I think the sprint/marathon analogy works. I think a lot of people enjoy the feeling of "writing a novel". They're joggers hoping to one day run a marathon. But if you're serious and want to tell if you're a good storyteller - get out there and practice some sprints and short races - put your short stories out on the market and let them be judged.

OK, I've pushed the analogy far enough now...

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Locksmith

But if you're serious and want to tell if you're a good storyteller - get out there and practice some sprints and short races - put your short stories out on the market and let them be judged.

Are you saying that writers who begin by writing novels and never get around to writing short stories at all aren't serious, Locksmith?

And I think you are comparing two things that are in no way analogous.

[Barney]

The original thread title was;

Writing SF/F short stories - useful for novelists?

Quite surprising how opinions seem to be so polarised on this. Some people (me included) think it is useful. Others think short stories and novels are so different that experiencing of writing the former won't help much with the latter.

I am saying this from the perspective of someone who takes writing seriously, but hasn't been in the game for a long time. One thing I quickly realised was that my first attempts at story telling were flawed and actually quite boring. Writing several short stories in fairly quick succession helped my development. It gave me practice at telling a story from start to finish, and I learned a lot from it. If I had gone straight into writing a novel I don't think I would have learned as much as quickly. Rather than having a few short stories under my belt that (hopefully!) showed improvement from the earliest to the latest, I would just have one poor novel.
It seems others want to write a novel straight away, and I say you have to go with your instincts, it's just that mine were to start with shorter stuff.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Here is the best advice that I know how to give: If you want to write novels, write novels, if you want to write short stories, write short stories, and if you want to do both, then do both. But don't ever let anyone talk you into doing either one as a stepping stone to the other. It doesn't work that way.

[Hilarious Joke]

But surely Teresa you must agree that its really important to write, and thus short stories might be a good idea if you want to complete something, or if you want to explore an idea, or you're enthusiasm for your main work is flagging.

Of course, if you say you can write good fantasy novels without writing any short stories, I obviously believe you. In fact I knew that before. But I also think short stories can be a useful tool for some people in writing longer works.

Post 400!

[Locksmith]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Are you saying that writers who begin by writing novels and never get around to writing short stories at all aren't serious, Locksmith?

And I think you are comparing two things that are in no way analogous.

An interesting pick on a tiny part of my post. What I was actually saying with this comment, if you read it in context, is that a lot of "aspiring novelists" are actually procrastinating and aren't, in all honesty, 100% serious about writing for publication. More power to them. However, one way to get into the whole publication process - writing an entire, self-contained story, finalising a manuscript, sending it out, dealing with rejections, dealing with publishers, editing, re-editing, seeing your name in print - is to write short stories. It will help you become a better novelist. (Like all advice though, different strokes for different folks).

As Barney says, the original question was whether writing short stories may be helpful to novelists. They're clearly different beasts, like sprinting and marathon running, and if you want to do one exceptionally well, you need to focus on that goal. But, like running, there is cross pollination and a lot of aspiring novelists would do well to try their hand at short stories. (c.f. George RR Martin: Frequently Asked Questions - George R. R. Martin's Official Website )

There was a humorous article on The Onion from the premise that novelists were, like screen writers, on strike, and no-one noticed. One of the lines that stuck with me was along the lines of "99% of strikers are writing their first novel".

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Hilarious Joke

But surely Teresa you must agree that its really important to write, and thus short stories might be a good idea if you want to complete something, or if you want to explore an idea, or you're enthusiasm for your main work is flagging.

Of course, if you say you can write good fantasy novels without writing any short stories, I obviously believe you. In fact I knew that before. But I also think short stories can be a useful tool for some people in writing longer works.

Post 400!

'useful for some people' is the important phrase here. Every author is different and what suits one won't suit another. There is no template. No one should be forced to write short fiction if they don't want to.

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Locksmith

An interesting pick on a tiny part of my post. What I was actually saying with this comment, if you read it in context, is that a lot of "aspiring novelists" are actually procrastinating and aren't, in all honesty, 100% serious about writing for publication. More power to them. However, one way to get into the whole publication process - writing an entire, self-contained story, finalising a manuscript, sending it out, dealing with rejections, dealing with publishers, editing, re-editing, seeing your name in print - is to write short stories. It will help you become a better novelist. (Like all advice though, different strokes for different folks).

As Barney says, the original question was whether writing short stories may be helpful to novelists. They're clearly different beasts, like sprinting and marathon running, and if you want to do one exceptionally well, you need to focus on that goal. But, like running, there is cross pollination and a lot of aspiring novelists would do well to try their hand at short stories. (c.f. George RR Martin: Frequently Asked Questions - George R. R. Martin's Official Website )

There was a humorous article on The Onion from the premise that novelists were, like screen writers, on strike, and no-one noticed. One of the lines that stuck with me was along the lines of "99% of strikers are writing their first novel".

Again, the imprtant phrase here is that it's 'one way'. It will not help some prospective novelists at all to write short fiction, because not everyone's writing brain works that way. Don't try to be prescriptive.

[Hilarious Joke]

Yep. And I feel a bit silly now, offering my opinion as a young, fledging uni student who hasn't written anything over 19 thousand words, next to opinions from published author and a publisher himself.

*Bows in deference to greater authorities*

[Locksmith]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

Again, the imprtant phrase here is that it's 'one way'. It will not help some prospective novelists at all to write short fiction, because not everyone's writing brain works that way. Don't try to be prescriptive.

Like I said, John "(Like all advice though, different strokes for different folks)."

It's always useful in seeking advice to get different people's perspectives.

[John Jarrold]

Yep, everyone will take some, ignore others!