The "Ten Commandments according to John"

[gary compton]

I picked up these "do not do's" from another thread by John Jarrold...seems good advice.

My question on number 10, can you bring information in through a character's POV based on what he knows?, his past experiences, people he has met, memories etc?

1. Awful dialogue - read it out loud, does it sound natural, coming from your mouth?
2. Hackneyed plots. No discernable focus to the book or sense of continuity.
3. No Clichés.
4. A complete lack of wit or humor.
5. "Characters" who are only talking heads.
6. A lack of background and foreground.
7. No idea of the commercial market
8. Lots of telling from the outside, rather then seeing the story from specific characters' point-of-view
9. Only use one character throughout a scene, don't jump around. 'Show, don't tell'
10. And, of course: don’t use huge expository lumps. The dreaded info-dump.

[John Jarrold]

Yes, absolutely. As a rounded character, he or she has a past, and the reader can know that through his/her thoughts and conversations.

[gary compton]

I nearly wrote The "Ten Commandments according to St John" but I thought I should await your knighthood first

[gary compton]

Joking aside,I have laminated the ten commandments and put it on the wall in my office with a note...READ EVERYDAY!!

[John Jarrold]

Now I'm getting worried...

[gary compton]

You should be!

[Kissmequick]

Quick question

What exactly do you mean by 'telling from the outside'?

I think I know, just want to make sure.

[John Jarrold]

Every scene should be shown through the eyes and thoughts of a specific character. Not told from an outside viewpoint, where the reader knows the thoughts and motivations of every character in a scene. So the POV character can only intuit what others are thinking, and the reader can only know, in that scene, what the POV character knows. With more than one POV character running through a book, the reader can, of course, know more than any of them know individually, which readers love! George R R Martin does this brilliantly in A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. Interweaving storylines, each with its own POV character, building into a whole.

[Kissmequick]

Right, got it. Thanks

[John Jarrold]

It was the year 1529. In the cold, castle room, two men eyed each other across a mighty wooden table. They had known each other since they were children...

That's telling.

Alaric Morton eyed Guiscard across the table, holding back a shiver from the icy cold. He'd known the Gascon since they were children...

That's showing.

[Scarfy]

That's a great example. The showing is a lot more natural.

Is telling always bad? I mean, do you find it particularly off putting?

[John Jarrold]

As I said, 'Show, don't tell' is on every fiction editor's heart in 2008. Showing involves the reader inside your protagonists' heads, behind their eyes. Telling from outside puts a pane of glass between the reader and the action. Anything that comes to me told I throw back instantly and reject.

[lathark]

How far would you take this John, because in theory, it is possible only to show, not tell.

Secondly what do you think writers giving hints into the futer :- 'she would not know that until later.'

cheers

[lathark]

Sorry about the typo, bloody keyboard...hahha

What do you think of writers hinting about the future...

[SJAB]

Gary; you had to post that list didn't you. It's got me breaking out in a cold sweat. (though that could possibly have something to do with my age )

I have just started my annual edit of my "epic fantasy". I try each year to apply what I have learned about writing in the previous 12 months to this monster of a story. Not that I ever expect to sell it, ROFL! It is a useful way of charting my progress, (or lack of it) as a writer.