Possibly Starting To Write

[Lith]

Yeah. I can't seem to write short stories- they all come out novella length or longer.

But you won't know until you try. Or, as I've been told: "You can't steer a parked car."

[Shingetsu]

I don't think I'd be effective at short stories really. I like the idea of long stories and such.

I havn't really gotten far, but I have made a map with 10 or so different kingdoms and some islands--my Mom said it looked like a puzzle. I've also developed my plot and characters a bunch more by brainstorming with my brother.

I will see how far I get, but who knows.

[flynx]

Originally Posted by Lith

Yeah. I can't seem to write short stories- they all come out novella length or longer.

I think I might have made that more complex than I meant to. Let me try again.

The short stories I'm talking about are parts of the novel. for example in 'LOTR' when Merry, Pippin etc turn up at the Inn and Strider makes his first appearance.

We already know why they're at the Inn, we know who's in the party, we know where they're headed, we know (basically) what their characters are like. These are parts of the whole story that needn't be included in this particular short story. (I read somewhere that Tolkien didn't know who Strider was when he introduced him)

So when writing this short story we have a large base of common knowledge between the author and the reader. this is a base that can be assumed when writing because it is something that will become common in the rest of the book.

Originally Posted by shingetsu

I don't think I'd be effective at short stories really. I like the idea of long stories and such.

I havn't really gotten far, but I have made a map with 10 or so different kingdoms and some islands--my Mom said it looked like a puzzle. I've also developed my plot and characters a bunch more by brainstorming with my brother.

The length of a novel can drastically affect the way in which you write, you have a very long stretch to fill, hopefully with an end in mind and can easily take common knowledge for granted and just leave out required detail, or the genesis of characters.

When I mentioned 'good' short stories as being extremely difficult to write they are the stand alone, no 'common knowledge' kind of stories with beginnings, middles and endings that aren't actually required in a short which is part of a novel. The beginning (including the required common knowledge) is all the pages previously, the end (joining up all the various threads and plots) is pages and pages down the line. In this case what you are writing is 'middles' which can be achieved in one sitting or a couple of days.

When I'm writing I try not to look at the end of the book,(yeah like I have written a book before) as Mr Vimes says, I do the job that's in front of me, which is the next line, the next paragraph, the next chapter.

Writing short stories has been very helpful for me. Stories that others have read, stories that I asked other people to edit or pre-read before I posted them, stories that I've been asked to expand or continue.

I just think shorts are a good way to start.

[Lith]

Ah, gotcha. I actually do something like that; there's a larger goal at work, but I write chapters as semi-individual stories with beginnnings, middles, and ends, and yes, it's very helpful.

[Shingetsu]

How much backstory does everyone write for your main characters? I started out with Name, Age, Domicile, Height, etc. Then wrote a 2000 word story sort of about his past. Even though height would never be mentioned really, unless it's thoughts of another character maybe. It's not really the most descriptive, more of a vague retelling. Most likely riddled with things only I'll ever know and not get mentioned in the actual story.

Do people write thousands and thousands of words for a characters backstory, or keep it a bit more simple but getting the details of it? (Especially doesn't help when your character is long-lived and over 300.)

[Lith]

Like, none. A hundred words, maybe; the rest of it's wrapped up in plot rather than character detailing. That is, the characters are seen through what they do within the story rather than what came before. It's one of the areas I leave room for while I write. Add to that the fact that I usually don't care anyway what their eye color is and what their favorite foods are, and I've very little in prep work. Heck, half of them suddenly appear in the writing rather than beforehand anyway. Just *boom!* and there's this cool new character that hadn't been there five seconds before.

Details should generally serve a purpose within a story, and what you tell about your characters should tell the reader something vital to the story- like I have an unemotional, empty character with grey eyes, for instance, or strong cheekbones on someone who's um, strong, or something. There's an art to it though, and for you (yes, just for you!) I'd suggest NOT worrying about it for at least a year. Just let your imagination roam wide and unfettered for a while.

[flynx]

I don't write backstory but each character has backstory that I see develop as I'm writing.

Example: A girl has escaped form her cell on the Draphn ship (they flew too close to the qeecark sun and perished but the ship prison cell is in time isolation) So she escapes and gets to the bridge, turns on the screen and vaguely recognises a few constellations.

Do I mention now that she recognised them because she took a night school class in astronomy and parallax? That's a bit contrived.

Do I go to a flashback where she takes a night school class and meets the alien that abducted her to his ship? That's a whole other story.

Or do my readers know already that she took a night school class because of something mentioned earlier? That's sounds a good idea and it's called foreshadowing.

Because I've only just realised myself that she took the class I have to go back and include the fact earlier in the story.

[Shingetsu]

Alright, I'll probably write brief backstories for the other main characters then. Which is probably good because I don't know much about the main antagonist other than what she did to the protagonist. I'll just have to use the very-rough draft for ideas and what characters are like and what will happen. If their alive in my head, hopefully they'll figure out how to breathe on the page.

[Culhwch]

As with everything else to do with writing, everyone is going to have a different method. You need to work out what works best for you. It'll take time, and practice. I've been writing for years and I'm still working it out - I use different approaches for different ideas....

[flynx]

Shingetsu, I think Lith will agree (edited to add: looks like culhwch too) when I say that any advice that's given here is what works for us, not what everybody should do.

If writing out your characters is how you can make them real then go with that. You wouldn't be alone. One of the great Russian writers (I forget which, possibly Chekhov) actually wrote more words about his characters than were contained in his books, words that no one but he ever saw. So you wouldn't be alone in this approach.

Write how it's comfortable for you.

[Lith]

Yep, there's no single way writers write. In fact, there's no single way a single writer writes- we change our own methods on a slow but constant basis. For instance, I used to be the type that wanted to know exactly where I would end a tale, until I realized it was working against me. Others have found themselves with a long story without a decent ending because it wasn't planned out beforehand.

Anyway, practice, practice!

[Culhwch]

And bucketloads of additional information might come in handy when you've a bestseller on your hands - a concordance or encyclopaedia could mean big bucks...

[Zubi-Ondo]

There's another thing to consider. Writing a whole book in the first place is a very daunting task, even without cleaning it up. The first time I tried it, I found that I ran into conflicts. Conflicts from one part of the story to another. A story that is 100,000 words has so many things going on, and those things (at least ought to be) related in some way. For example - you might kill off a 'bad guy' before you realize later that he was the only person who knew some crucial piece of information that you still need to make the story work. I worked with an editor for a month or two who suggested that I make up "flash cards" or an outline at least so that I could condense the story into something I could look at all at once. With flash cards, you can write a chapter title, and then a blurb of what the chapter is about. (You can also use scenes instead of chapters.) That way you can move them around on a story board and see where they fit the best. Some writers might disagree with this method as they would feel it impedes creativity, and the organizing can be done later just like the rest of the editing. That's cool, whatever works for you in the long run. I just found that for me, it saved me more work in the long run, and it was still a fun process. Even this method is not perfect - you may have a sudden inspiration halfway though and end up re-organizing again. As long as you're enjoying yourself - it's a labor of love.

- Z.

Edit: My goodness - I had only read the first page of this thread. Whew! I didn't see all of those other pages when I wrote this. If someone has already talked about this idea, my apologies.

[Shingetsu]

An outline might help me. I think I might be better off just writing though and the ideas that come from it. Though still trying to write down story ideas and thoughts of how things can happen. Starting with too basic of a story probably won't help me.

I got a picture so far in my mind of the two protagonists and the antagonist. And two minor characters I guess. There's some names and ideas for others too. But beyond that it seem like the two protagonist are the main focus, and then I guess new characters they meet through the story from there. Needs work...

Plus I need an interesting magic system, the one I've worked on so far is a tad bit basic. Probably got too many cliches as it is.