The Hidden Stars - Madeline Howard (review)

[scalem X]

I really enjoyed it too.

Small spoiler, just a quote

adds quote to personal quote archive: "There were only a few who were able to create that and only one wicked enough to do so" so love this one.

[ericf]

I read The Hidden Stars recently and found it to be a good read.
However, I think it has some very undeveloped characters.

Take the main antagonist, for example: Ouriáná.
I felt that she was very thinly drawn. Not much more than a thin veil of pure hatred without any direct goal.

Her son, Cuillioc, does seem to have promise as a character but we don't see him much in this novel.

I feel the novel suffers from being one third of a big book. That's why I don't really like these "modern" trilogies that have no well placed break between books, no obvious goal achieved in every book.

And one reference to Sindérian sensing something deep during the voyage on the ship, chapter 4, page 98 in the Eos pocket version, with an unknown language involved which intrigued me was simply not part of the rest of the story. No reference back to that, I think we'll see, pretty important moment.

These points made me feel that the novel isn't a full success. The trilogy as a whole might fulfill the promise of the scenes that depicted the wizards and mages throwing the world into chaos which was great. I remember reading that section in the book store and feeling that this could be good. I also remember that I couldn't find that piece of writing when I read the book. Was it all in my mind? Something about attacing using wind?

One thing I have to congratulate you on is that this novel has no "dead meat". Everything that is on the page fits into the story. It's not put there to make the book longer (like some other authors seem to do). I like the pace and the length.

Anyway, I will continue to read your books. I bought most of your earlier work and I'm just waiting for the right moment to start on the Green Lion trilogy.
ericf

[Teresa Edgerton]

Thanks for your comments. I'll certainly think about them as I work on the rest of the trilogy -- although the first book, of course, is set in stone.

I would have thought Ouriána's motives were obvious -- an ambition to rule and dominate. I'm puzzled as to how I could have made that part any clearer, although I do intend to explain why her ambition exists on such a grand scale. In the past, I've been accused (and accused myself) of giving too much away by spending so much time with my antagonists, explaining them and what they do -- so this time I decided to try a different approach. Clearly, both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses, their advocates and detractors. Maybe there's a perfect balance somewhere and I need to find it. Maybe there is no way of satisfying everyone on that particular point.

The scene you refer to about using the winds as a weapon plays a very pivotal role in the first part of the book. It's the battle between Éireamhóine and six Furiádhin in the mountains -- the event that has such serious consequences for all concerned, and sets up the main action of the trilogy. I'm not sure how you missed that, particularly if you were looking for it.

As a general rule, wizards and magicians in that world don't like to use magic directly as a weapon against each other (I think the bits of history I have included explain why), so there aren't going to be many scenes of that nature (although there is a big one coming up in the next book). If that's the kind of thing you are looking for, it would be wrong for me to encourage you to read on. And having set up the rules myself, I believe I ought to play by them.

[ericf]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

Thanks for your comments. I'll certainly think about them as I work on the rest of the trilogy -- although the first book, of course, is set in stone.

I would have thought Ouriána's motives were obvious -- an ambition to rule and dominate. I'm puzzled as to how I could have made that part any clearer, although I do intend to explain why her ambition exists on such a grand scale.

The scene you refer to about using the winds as a weapon plays a very pivotal role in the first part of the book. It's the battle between Éireamhóine and six Furiádhin in the mountains -- the event that has such serious consequences for all concerned, and sets up the main action of the trilogy. I'm not sure how you missed that, particularly if you were looking for it.

I guess it's been a while ( I read the book in May/June) and I don't remember things clearly.

The thing about Ouriáná is just that: She wants to rule unconditionally. My question was why. And you tell me you will explain that. Because I could see no motive for her to want to rule I felt her character was undeveloped. But as I said, this series feels like it's written as one book in three parts.

Any more light on the mystic words Sinderian hears during the sea voyage? That also felt like a thread that needed to get developed in the first book. I don't think many readers will remember such small details unless they are mentioned more than one time.

I tend to forget much of what I've read fairly quickly and that can be a problem. Some scenes do stay in my memory, though. And I do understand why magic is not used as a weapon. The consequenses are probably always impossible to calculate. I think that the memory of my first contact with the wind scene was so vivid in my mind that I didn't react as strongly the second time I read it.

Now, I'm not a writer myself but like I said: I do feel that you managed to write a book that was true to it's goals and didn't have any empty passages. That in itself is a difficult thing and should be praised.

With some extra touches of character background the first book could have had a slightly stronger impact.

Do you have any idea if the book has sold well?

I hope your work on volume 2 has gone well. I'm looking forward to it's publication.


ericf

[scalem X]

nanna Teresa
I was going to make a thread about the use of magic in THS, but maybe it's better if I just make my comment here.
I really like how you have developed the use of magic in your novel. But as always I prefer the magic on a low scale level, granting too much power to certain individuals can truely waste the balance of a book.
(as an example one would wonder why battles are fought with swords, when the battle comes down to two sorcerers battling each other, or how a sorcerer who can make a whole race speak can't use a spell to disguise herself or a charm spell or wathever). I think to keep the magic abilities of your characters in check will be your biggest challenge for the next couple of novels. Many writers seem to go down that trap *coughJordan,Eddings cough*, it doesn't mean that their novels aren't fun to read, but they would have been better if.
If you have not already drawn out a scheme of what spell uses how much resource/power and such I might suggest you do so.
But actually I think you're doing fine and without doubt you'll do so in the future, after all what do I know about it .

Also if the missing of some aspects that can be forgotten in between two novels pose a problem, that can be solved with or a synopsis of the first novel at the start of the second, a synopsis that puts stress on important parts. Or with a prologue that makes one remember stuff before actually using that aspect to built upon.
But in general I don't think that should for example one of the characters have a dream that refers to the mystic words, or something else in the first novel, that it would make me grab for the first novel again in order to reread the chapter.

Yeah I too am curious if it's selling alright.

[Teresa Edgerton]

(this is my long-winded reply to ericf -- I'm not forgetting about you scalem, and I'll answer you in the next message)

Actually, the answers to some of your questions are somewhat related, and while I have dropped some hints here and there regarding Ouriána, I don’t want to say too much at this time, because some of these things are supposed to come as a kind of revelation to the readers as the trilogy progresses -- and frankly I’d rather not spoil that.

So I’ll just give you some of the background information, and you can try to fit some of the pieces in the first book into the larger puzzle if you wish -- but I hope there won’t be any actual spoilers, for you or anyone else who reads this. (Although anyone reading this far should be warned that what follows may provide spoilers that I don’t intend.)

There are, as I hope I’ve indicated here and there, ancient entities in the world of my story, powers neither good nor evil, whose nature is almost wholly destructive. They are even beneficial in the long term (the very, very, very long term -- think eons and eons) because they clear the way for change and renewal. Sometimes, however, a human magician (or other sentient creature) will tap into some of their power, accidentally or intentionally, and begin to channel it. Then the processes they represent accelerate far beyond what is natural -- and the magician involved is never really in control, whatever he or she thinks. These powers care nothing at all about their human or other tools and will use them and throw them away as suits their purposes; humans and other organic life forms just aren’t relevant to them on any level that would equate to good and evil as we know it.

In the early days of the Empire, great wizards like Mallion Penn struggled against these forces. They did succeed in banishing, binding, or imprisoning some of the creatures particularly associated with these Old Earth Powers -- dragons, giants, etc. -- but they could do nothing against the Powers themselves, which are just too tremendous, too far beyond the scope of the human mind to compass. (Which is actually a good thing, in the long run, because if the wizards could have banished them, that would have created an unnatural stasis.) So the Earth Powers linger on. And of course, as we have seen, the bindings that wizards put on their creatures are not unbreakable either. Certain actions taken by Ouriána (and possibly even by those who are trying to oppose her) are weakening those bindings, and more and more of those are going to break if the war goes on and nothing is done to stop her. She, by the way, has an imperfect understanding of some of these forces and what they represent, and she thinks she can use these processes to create a better world in her own time. Probably thousands of people will perish, but that’s just an unfortunate side effect. The weak are a drain on the strong in any case. Only the best will survive. (And so on and so forth.) Her ego feeds all this, of course, but there is also an element of ignorance. Unlike her sister, Nimenoë, she was not trained as a wizard on Leal. She had to learn most of what she knows on her own, and from corrupted and dangerous sources. Before her father died and she ascended the throne, she spent some time sifting through the ruins in some of the great cities of Otöi and managed to dredge up two or three grimoires of the maguses.

Some ancient civilizations attempted to appease the Earth Powers with sacrifices. (Sindérian’s experience in the boat is a kind of psychic flashback to that era.) But they can’t be appeased. Their hungers are too vast for men to satisfy them, even temporarily. Nor do they, as a general rule, recognize human beings as distinct individuals, except when it’s one of the few people with whom they establish a link and channel their power. Even then, it’s like the owner of the flea circus who recognizes his own little performers by what he’s taught them to do, but all the other fleas in the world are just fleas.

In the later books there will be more encounters with relics of past ages when the Earth Powers were more noticably active through their human and other agents, and when people recognized them, worshipped them, and tried to appease them. Some of these relics tie more directly into the story, some are just part of the background, to provide more depth, so that the characters aren't acting against a flat piece of scenery. (And sometimes, because my writing is an organic process, things end up meaning more than I think they are going to mean when I first put them in. There may be some things I can't tell you about because even I don't know them yet.)

So there you are, a long answer to some brief questions, and it may or may not answer anything to your satisfaction. I couldn’t tell all of this in the first book without a vast quantity of info dump, but I did try to imply or set the stage wherever I could without slowing down the action or giving away too many secrets.

[Teresa Edgerton]

scalem, I have worked out a system of magic in some detail, but not in terms of quantifying the power or how much is required for one spell or another, because I don't think about magic in that way. I have more of a historical approach than a modern one. X amount of power + one particular spell = a certain result -- that implies more of a scientific or technological perspective (or an influence of fantasy role playing games) that is quite foreign to my ideas about magic.

I could show you charts of correspondences and lists of names and words, but they would probably have very little meaning for you unless you've made a study of the history of magic. Maybe they'll be included in a glossary at the end of the third book, to mystify the many and delight (at least I hope they would provide delight) the few.

There is a synopsis planned for the beginning of Book Two, and so I would imagine there will be one included in Book Three.

Unfortunately, I don't actually know how The Hidden Stars is doing. The way they set up royalties and issue royalty statements, the author never does know for a long time unless the book is doing really, really well or really, really badly. Since I haven't a clue, I'm assuming it's somewhere in between. The fact that they issued a mass market paperback (that's the pocket size edition) as a follow up to the trade edition, and the fact that I just signed something so that they can bring out an e-book, these seem to me to be favorable signs. If I had written the second book on time, I am sure the entire picture would be a lot rosier. (Taking care of my dying mother and struggling with a long-term clinical depression were bad career moves on my part. But life intervenes and throws even the best laid plans into total chaos.)

There will be another royalty statement coming along round about the end of October, and I should have a better idea by then. (If the news is good, I'll let everyone know. If it's bad, I'll probably choose to sulk in silence.)

[ericf]

Hello, Teresa.
The world you describe is indeed full to the brink with ideas that I find a quite new slant on fantasy.
I do remember the comments about slumbering beasts and I do understand that Ouriáná isn't very aware of what she is actually doing.

I believe you have provided me with enough backstory to make meel content for now.

I'm somewhat disappointed that I couldn't get a hardcover edition of your book. Are you publishing in the UK? Mabye Harper Collins could release it there in hardcover?

Looking forward to geting to know your characters better.
ericf

[Teresa Edgerton]

Through all that long-winded explanation I forgot to answer one of your questions: what it was that Sindérian (momentarily possessed by ghosts out of the distant past) called out in the boat.

It's an ancient invocation in a debased dialect of the Old Tongue. Hanòg domendeth amissa abhoran vòragol means "Spirits of the Deep, accept our sacrifice." Ephësien means something along the lines of "have mercy" or "look favorably on us" -- there's no exact translation.

No, there will be no UK edition of the book. The time when a deal like that was most likely to happen was after the book was finished and before it was published, but I was so late meeting my deadline it screwed up the timing on that and a lot of other things.

[ericf]

Sorry to hear that. Mabye there will be a hardcover edition when you've outsold the giants of the field?
Seriously, it's a pity that the publishers didn't go that far at least with the first book. Though it's always frustrating when the second and third of a trilogy doesn't come out in the same format as the first (As with Sarah Zettel's Isavalta novels in the UK. The US edition did come out in hardcover.).
ericf

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by ericf

Seriously, it's a pity that the publishers didn't go that far at least with the first book.

My fault entirely, and I take full responsibility. I didn't plan to go into a clinical depression, of course, but I can't blame that one on HarperCollins or anyone else.

[scalem X]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericf
Seriously, it's a pity that the publishers didn't go that far at least with the first book.

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

My fault entirely, and I take full responsibility. I didn't plan to go into a clinical depression, of course, but I can't blame that one on HarperCollins or anyone else.

Agh well the world full of pity and it's full of joy.
Don't pity the past and continue with the ploy.