JANNY WURTS - Most under-recognized Fantasy author!

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by Althain's Warden

As a side note i would say that whilst i revere Tolkien as much as the next man i think he has been surpassed in every aspect of writing, he's still the man though because without his vision those that followed would not have been able to do what they did, another classic case of standing on the shoulders of giants !

Well I enjoy LOTR and would have read it at least 5 or 6 times but I agree in the sense that there's many authors whose prose is certainly superior to Tolkien but the world he created still remains magical. Tolkien certainly has had an inescapable influence on the Genre but I can think of several authors who have even gone out of their way to avoid going down the Tolkien tack e.g China Mielville, M John Harrison etc...

Also don't forget there were several authors before Tolkien whom IMO were superior to him in writing ability like Dunsany or Eddison and had a major influence on him Norse sagas notwithstanding..

Cheers....

[Althain's Warden]

Cheers for the info Gollum, i suspect like many readers that start with Tolkien there is the trap of believing that there was NO fantasy authors either before or around Tolkien ! lol I confess that in general terms i think of Tolkien as the beginning point for the modern era, i have often thought that i should look at some more of the older authors. About the oldest i've gone is Moorcock, Robert Vardman and another guy he collaberated with but thats about it i'm afraid. Too many shiny modern covers to tempt the eye ! lol

[GOLLUM]

Originally Posted by Althain's Warden

Cheers for the info Gollum, i suspect like many readers that start with Tolkien there is the trap of believing that there was NO fantasy authors either before or around Tolkien ! lol I confess that in general terms i think of Tolkien as the beginning point for the modern era, i have often thought that i should look at some more of the older authors. About the oldest i've gone is Moorcock, Robert Vardman and another guy he collaberated with but thats about it i'm afraid. Too many shiny modern covers to tempt the eye ! lol

Off-topic: Well some of the best prose ever written was pre-Tolkien. People like William Morris, George MacDonald, E.R. Eddison, A. Merritt, Hope Mirlees and Lord Dunsany are considered amongst some of the pioneers of what we call Fantasy and that's only naming a few. It wasn't actually called or referred to that collectively more than 150 odd years ago with MacDonald generally acknowledged as being the father of the Genre.

You may want to use Wikipedia to check out some of those names or go to the Classic SFF subforum to investigate further. There's a very nice book that Rosemary (a.k.a. The Sword Maiden) got me called: Tales Before Tolkien: The Roots Of Modern Fantasy Ed. Douglas A. Anderson.

Check it out....

[dreir]

Originally Posted by GOLLUM

OK, Wurts IMO is a superior writer to Feist and very close to matching Martin. Erikson would probably fit somehwere b/w Feist and Wurts in writing ability but Erikson is No. 1 by a country mile when it comes to worldbuilding (Tolkien aside).

I find myself nodding furiously in agreement as I read this, but I'd say it can be argued that Wurts is exactly at the same level as Martin - it's just not that obvious since the two have very different styles. But I'd happily settle for 'very close', anyhow

Erikson has the advantage in world building because he and his friends had been roleplaying in that world he created for years, adding stuff all the time, long before Gardens was published. He practically 'lived' in that world.

- Dreir -

[Grimward]

I think a lot of authors used the role-playing angle for inspiration/content, Dre; I know Feist did, for example. Weis/Hickman, and Tad Williams also seem to come to mind, although I think Tad may have written first, then gotten into that....

Definitely fertile ground....

[dreir]

Quite true. I forgot about Feist coming from the same RPG background, but I was sort of refering more to Wurts and Martin, who Gollum argues are the 'better writers' but not as good at worldbuilding as Erikson. I don't think either of them were roleplayers?

- Dreir -

[Grimward]

Re Wurts, not that I've read, but I also haven't dug too deeply into this particular nuance yet, either. Perhaps some more trolling of Trystane's web site is in order?

[Clansman]

Seemed like the appropriate place to put my 1500th post, since this is where I started three years ago...

I am glad that since starting this thread, Janny Wurts is back on North American shelves with an international contract for most of her catalogue, she is under contract for the last three books of WoLaS, she has audio book deals for the out-of-print Cycle of Fire, and she has the pen-penultimate book of WoLaS out this fall.

Now, that's...an interesting coincidence. All these good things have happened since starting this particular thread.

Just sayin'...

[Kierkegaurdian]

Originally Posted by Clansman

Seemed like the appropriate place to put my 1500th post, since this is where I started three years ago...

I am glad that since starting this thread, Janny Wurts is back on North American shelves with an international contract for most of her catalogue, she is under contract for the last three books of WoLaS, she has audio book deals for the out-of-print Cycle of Fire, and she has the pen-penultimate book of WoLaS out this fall.

Now, that's...an interesting coincidence. All these good things have happened since starting this particular thread.

Just sayin'...

I have found a bunch of her stuff at used bookstores, I seem to have had good luck there lately. I was wondering, having not read anything by her, should I embark on the War of Light and Shadow first, or something different. I have the Cycle of Fire, so maybe that? I am a very slow reader and am almost done with Gardens of the Moon, and would like to try something else before starting Deadhouse Gates.

[Clansman]

K, I know you to be a discriminating reader, and slow readers definitely do better with Janny Wurts. I have found that fast readers are not as ready to appreciate her style, which purposefully slows down the reader in order to help them see things from a different perspective. Wurts turns perception on its head, so the read changes you. Her style does take a bit of getting used to (not for me, because I've been reading her stuff since the late 1980's, in her collaboration with Feist), but once you are used to it (takes about half a book for a newbie), a whole new world is opened up to you. There is an excerpt of a review below that explains this better.

Cycle of Fire is now well over twenty years old, written while Wurts was a much younger writer. It is a good series in its own right, but does not approach the scope and grandeur of WoLaS, and it is not an accurate reflection of her style now. Still worth the read, though, a full four stars. I would recommend you to the one-shot novel, To Ride Hell's Chasm, which displays her current style in a 700 page book, in a suspenseful and action-packed story. I love this book, and give it 5 stars, but as good as it is, however, not her best...

which is the soon-to-be nine volumes of The Wars of Light and Shadow, a work of truly epic fantasy. There are only two others vaguely like it in scope and characterization, and those are GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, and Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen. The styles, mores and themes of these series are, however, completely different. Wurts and Martin are far superior to Erikson in characterization and character development. All three are excellent plotters, with twists and turns abounding. All three are excellent world builders, with Erikson being the biggest and most bloody, Martin's being (very) loosely based on our own, and Wurts' having a feel of ancientness and loss akin to Tolkien's.

If you love big epic fantasy, by all means start with Curse of the Mistwraith, but I recommend trying To Ride Hell's Chasm first. Here's an excerpt from a review by Kat Hooper at Fantasy Literature's Fantasy Book and Audiobook Reviews

It took me a while to get used to Ms Wurts' style. I haven't had a lot of reading time lately, so the last several things I've chosen to read have purposely been a bit... light. Like chocolate mousse. Wurts is not light. The prose is, in fact, heavy...[excerpt from TRHC deleted]

When I first started reading, I felt like my dainty dish of chocolate mousse had suddenly been replaced by a 20 oz sirloin, and I had some initial trouble digesting it. It probably didn't help that I wasn't finding the time to sit down with the book before midnight. By the time I got to it, I was about as alert as if I actually had consumed that 20 oz sirloin. But, I liked the story and characters immediately, so I started reading earlier in the day, and by the time I was about 1/3 of the way through the book, my pace had picked up significantly. By the time I was 1/2 way through, the language was no longer a barrier and the story was so gripping that I actually could stay up past midnight and read. In fact, I stayed up reading until 2 am for the last two nights without any trouble at all. I actually had to force myself to go to bed. At first I thought that as the pace of the story got faster (it flies for the second half of the book), or Ms Wurts writing had become more succinct. But, I went back and read some of the first half again to check my theory: No. It hadn't changed — it was me. I just got used to the writing style and had learned to appreciate it. Ms Wurts is an artist (she does her own cover art and maps) and she uses words like she uses her paint. They put us in the scene; they show rather than tell.

Here is a link to a bunch of Janny Wurts reviews, and to read the full text of the one above scroll down to the bottom of the page:

Janny Wurts | Fantasy Literature

Btw, if you buy from second hand stores, authors do not get paid. Try to buy a new book if and when you can. My guess is that if you get hooked on WoLaS, you'll read through the series by fall and order the newest, Initiate's Trial, due out on October 27.

[Kierkegaurdian]

Originally Posted by Clansman

K, I know you to be a discriminating reader, and slow readers definitely do better with Janny Wurts. I have found that fast readers are not as ready to appreciate her style, which purposefully slows down the reader in order to help them see things from a different perspective. Wurts turns perception on its head, so the read changes you. Her style does take a bit of getting used to (not for me, because I've been reading her stuff since the late 1980's, in her collaboration with Feist), but once you are used to it (takes about half a book for a newbie), a whole new world is opened up to you. There is an excerpt of a review below that explains this better.

Cycle of Fire is now well over twenty years old, written while Wurts was a much younger writer. It is a good series in its own right, but does not approach the scope and grandeur of WoLaS, and it is not an accurate reflection of her style now. Still worth the read, though, a full four stars. I would recommend you to the one-shot novel, To Ride Hell's Chasm, which displays her current style in a 700 page book, in a suspenseful and action-packed story. I love this book, and give it 5 stars, but as good as it is, however, not her best...

which is the soon-to-be nine volumes of The Wars of Light and Shadow, a work of truly epic fantasy. There are only two others vaguely like it in scope and characterization, and those are GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, and Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen. The styles, mores and themes of these series are, however, completely different. Wurts and Martin are far superior to Erikson in characterization and character development. All three are excellent plotters, with twists and turns abounding. All three are excellent world builders, with Erikson being the biggest and most bloody, Martin's being (very) loosely based on our own, and Wurts' having a feel of ancientness and loss akin to Tolkien's.

If you love big epic fantasy, by all means start with Curse of the Mistwraith, but I recommend trying To Ride Hell's Chasm first. Here's an excerpt from a review by Kat Hooper at Fantasy Literature's Fantasy Book and Audiobook Reviews

It took me a while to get used to Ms Wurts' style. I haven't had a lot of reading time lately, so the last several things I've chosen to read have purposely been a bit... light. Like chocolate mousse. Wurts is not light. The prose is, in fact, heavy...[excerpt from TRHC deleted]

When I first started reading, I felt like my dainty dish of chocolate mousse had suddenly been replaced by a 20 oz sirloin, and I had some initial trouble digesting it. It probably didn't help that I wasn't finding the time to sit down with the book before midnight. By the time I got to it, I was about as alert as if I actually had consumed that 20 oz sirloin. But, I liked the story and characters immediately, so I started reading earlier in the day, and by the time I was about 1/3 of the way through the book, my pace had picked up significantly. By the time I was 1/2 way through, the language was no longer a barrier and the story was so gripping that I actually could stay up past midnight and read. In fact, I stayed up reading until 2 am for the last two nights without any trouble at all. I actually had to force myself to go to bed. At first I thought that as the pace of the story got faster (it flies for the second half of the book), or Ms Wurts writing had become more succinct. But, I went back and read some of the first half again to check my theory: No. It hadn't changed — it was me. I just got used to the writing style and had learned to appreciate it. Ms Wurts is an artist (she does her own cover art and maps) and she uses words like she uses her paint. They put us in the scene; they show rather than tell.

Here is a link to a bunch of Janny Wurts reviews, and to read the full text of the one above scroll down to the bottom of the page:

Janny Wurts | Fantasy Literature

Btw, if you buy from second hand stores, authors do not get paid. Try to buy a new book if and when you can. My guess is that if you get hooked on WoLaS, you'll read through the series by fall and order the newest, Initiate's Trial, due out on October 27.

Thanks for the detailed and helpful response! I think I will start on WoLaS before her others. Hopefully I won't get too lost, given that I will be 66% of the way done with The Baroque Cycle, 10% done with Malazan, and 50% done with The Book of the Long Sun. As long as I can keep the characters balanced, I should be fine!

My book purchases are pretty split, around 50% new and 50% used. The used books I buy generally are things that I could not get otherwise. I really enjoy having new, hardback copies of my favorites. (When I can afford them, of course). I got the Cycle of Fire books from a used bookstore because Wurts was in the back of my mind as a "to-read" author. Are many of her books out of print? I seem to be unable to find any at all at the big-box bookstores I go to. I have Curse of the Mistwraith but never see the others when I go to a bookstore that sells new books, unfortunately.

[Clansman]

All of WoLaS is in print, as is To Ride Hell's Chasm. Cycle of Fire, Master of Whitestorm and Sorcerer's Legacy are all out of print, but CoF is in audiobooks (well done recording, too).

Any on-line seller can get WoLaS to you.

[biodroid]

Clansman - How is JW compared to GRRM. I am enjoying GRRM's AGOT but I miss the sword fighting element of fantasy in this book.

[Clansman]

GRRM and Janny Wurts are similar in quality and complexity. Both of them write very real and vivid characters, and both of them are intricate plotters. You won't find a lot of sword fights in either one, but they do exist. Neither Wurts nor Martin pull punches when it comes to the "real" elements of life: people die, war is bloody and disgustingly awful, and humans have a knack for treating each other like crap. However, Wurts is more balanced, demonstrating better than Martin the beautiful elements of humanity: selflessness, sacrificing personal interests for greater good, the beauty of art and music, etc. You get a sense of hope in WoLaS, whereas in Martin's ASoIaF, it is getting pretty damn bleak by the end of the last-published novel. As far as writing styles are concerned, Wurts is more intricate, and seemingly small details are really, really important later on, and this obviously requires a slower reading pace. Both writers have a heck of a lot going on, so a slow reading pace is recommended for Martin too, but his story is compressed into 2 to 3 years, whereas Wurts' is, with her next book, spread over 260 or so, and expanding to 500 years by the end of the series. Both writers make reference to history, Martin of the previous few hundred years, and Wurst to a history of thousands of years, similar to Tolkien's mythology in that regard.

Erikson, who I compare often with Wurts and Martin for the reasons listed above, and whom I know you have read, Biodroid, is similarly bleak, but he fails to provide the context that Wurts and Martin insert into their stories, and Erikson throws you into the deep end at the beginning of his series. Some swim, and some drown (I'm on book five, persisting, and my head is barely above water. The character shifts between books leave you almost completely stranded). Erikson is a master world builder though.

Sounds like you are craving a little Leiber or Howard to sate your appetite for swords and sorcery? Wurts' Master of Whitestorm would be right up your alley. Very heroic, and a lot of fun. You'll have to find it at a second hand shop, though. You could also try To Ride Hell's Chasm, as that story starts as a mystery, and then busts loose into pure action in the second half of the book. It has some really good sword fights and small battles in it.

[biodroid]

Thanks Clansman, I do miss the whole swashbuckle element of fantasy.