Jon and Dany

[Charming Serpent]

Rhaegars friend and one-time Hand was Jon Connington. He was exiled after the battle of the bells and supposedly died in exile from drinking, but we found out that Varys faked that and Young Griff is his "son" who is being sent to Dany with precious cargo. That being a secret sword, secret knowledge and now a secret noseless dwarf.

Its in the spoilers for DWD, Viz.

[Qhorin Halfhand]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Egg, good to see you. I think it's been disproven that neither Jon Snow, Edric Dayne, Gerold Dayne, aka. Darkstar, Aurane Waters, Samwell Tarly, nor Sarella Sand is actually Aegon Targaryen. If Young Griff is not Aegon, then Aegon might actually be dead! This harsh reality severely conflicts with desires of conspiracies.

Better watch the double negatives there, gets a tad confusing! Can you explain how Edric Dayne has been proven to not be Aegon? I haven't seen the explanation and I'm interested!

I was lying in bed last night and while I personally think Aegon was simply killed during the sack of King's Landing, it IS fun coming up with conspiracy theories about how he could still be alive. Stretching out the idea that it could be Edric Dayne slightly, I had the idea that because of the similar biological markers for Targaryens and Daynes and given (I don't think?) that it is ever specified who Edric Dayne's parents are, it could be that Lady Ashara had a son who was switched with Aegon to protect the prince in a time when Robert's rebellion was gaining power. It seems unlikely but it could explain why Lady Ashara threw herself from the tower when Eddard came to visit. When Eddard came with Arthur's sword, he also unwittingly brought the news of the Sack of King's Landing and the death of her child in the place of baby Aegon.

Really, Aegon is dead though :P

[viZion]

Edric Dayne is 12 years old in the books and looks like he's 12 years old. Baby Aegon would be at least 4 years older than that. That's the main reason Edric Dayne is probably not baby Aegon.

[viZion]

Originally Posted by Charming Serpent

Rhaegars friend and one-time Hand was Jon Connington. He was exiled after the battle of the bells and supposedly died in exile from drinking, but we found out that Varys faked that and Young Griff is his "son" who is being sent to Dany with precious cargo. That being a secret sword, secret knowledge and now a secret noseless dwarf.

Its in the spoilers for DWD, Viz.

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to be discussing anything from ADWD since it hasn't actually happened. Even the official preview chapters GRRM has released could be changed by the time the book is released. The preview chapter summaries on westeros.org are written by people who are furiously taking notes (I assume tape recorders aren't allowed at those readings) and trying to remember everything that's said. They could be (and probably are) chock full of misinformation and, again, could be completely different from their final form when the book is released.

[The Curious Orange]

Me? I think GRRM reads boards like this and threw Young Griff into ADWD just to titilate the internet community. He's a red herring, and is shortly to meet his demise.

[Qhorin Halfhand]

Originally Posted by viZion

Edric Dayne is 12 years old in the books and looks like he's 12 years old. Baby Aegon would be at least 4 years older than that. That's the main reason Edric Dayne is probably not baby Aegon.

I actually just read that section on the way home and the estimate of age is "A youth, about 10 or 12" as judged by Arya. That's what makes me inclined to think its not true, but on the other hand there are instances of people's ages being mistaken. Robert Arryn seems a prime example of someone whose age would be impossible to judge without someone who actually knew him. Given the only person to have a guess at his age is Arya, herself a 10 year old girl, its not out of the realm of possibility that she misjudged. I'm not saying that's likely, but if GRRM really wanted to have Edric Dayne be Aegon, nothing he has written so far would really stop him. It would be very odd, but its possible. And really, isn't that what insane theorising is all about? :P

[Charming Serpent]

I stand by my thread and long long promise that the Daynes are integral in this Aegon theory or at least knew more than most about Rhaegar and his actions i.e. Tower of Joy.

[viZion]

Storm of Swords pg. 595 in the U.S. paperback edition (Arya VIII), Edric Dayne says, "I'm only twelve." Unless he's lying through his teeth but he doesn't appear to be doing that. Read the conversation between him and Arya and you'll see that he actually seems like an innocent bright-eyed kid. I.e., not the type to be lying about his age. Everytime he appears in that book he appears to really be a twelve year old. It's possible that he's just a very feminine, young-looking type of 16 year old but I doubt it.

I don't believe baby Aegon is alive at all but if he is I definitely think Edric Dayne is the wrong person to be thinking about.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Originally Posted by viZion

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to be discussing anything from ADWD since it hasn't actually happened. Even the official preview chapters GRRM has released could be changed by the time the book is released. The preview chapter summaries on westeros.org are written by people who are furiously taking notes (I assume tape recorders aren't allowed at those readings) and trying to remember everything that's said. They could be (and probably are) chock full of misinformation and, again, could be completely different from their final form when the book is released.

Im gonna assume anything George puts out in the preview chapters is canon in the big picture sense. Maybe the nuts and bolts will change but its unreasonable to think he would change a defining plot arc.

I do agree we will not discuss any of the note-taken-convention-scribbling, probably covered in nacho cheese cribb sheets be regarded as facts....

We've (read Werthead) have been discussing Young Griff since long before the ADWD preview chapter came out....I dont know where he got his information from....but Im not exactly a Magic 8-Ball with all the answers or anything.

[Qhorin Halfhand]

Originally Posted by viZion

Storm of Swords pg. 595 in the U.S. paperback edition (Arya VIII), Edric Dayne says, "I'm only twelve." Unless he's lying through his teeth but he doesn't appear to be doing that. Read the conversation between him and Arya and you'll see that he actually seems like an innocent bright-eyed kid. I.e., not the type to be lying about his age. Everytime he appears in that book he appears to really be a twelve year old. It's possible that he's just a very feminine, young-looking type of 16 year old but I doubt it.

I don't believe baby Aegon is alive at all but if he is I definitely think Edric Dayne is the wrong person to be thinking about.

Ah, I must have missed that bit! I'm on like my third or fourth reread and sometimes skip Arya chapters (or Sansa chapters) because I like them less than other characters.

Incidentally, I am running a Game of Thrones roleplaying game at the moment and my players favourite NPC is Edric Dayne. It's set about 6 years before the events of a game of thrones and he's only 6 in the game. No idea why my players like him so much.

[Mechaniik]

How about (a bit melodramatic I know), Dany is killed by Arya, who dies herself (I.E. Ice and Fire both dying) and Jon Targaryen survives (Ice and Fire) survives.

[Magatsu-San]

Man, I'm glad to see that the theory (which I've had since book 2) of Jon being Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child is finally gaining credence; it's always made perfect sense! Knowing that he couldn't let his sister's child be slaughtered, Ned smears his own honor with a lie - that he fathered a bastard - and raises him as his own. Since the Tarayagens wed each other, he and Danaerys (his aunt ewwwww) are a match...though there is a thought that the third Tarayagen could be a girl as well....hmmmmmm.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Magatsu-San

...though there is a thought that the third Tarayagen could be a girl as well....hmmmmmm.

WTF? Did I miss something but the only other theories about other closet Targs all involve men:
-Tyrion (bastard of Aerys)
-baby Aegon survived: Alleras? Darkstar?
-Varys

And who is this third Targ and who says there are three, except the three heads of the dragon notion but I do not believe this precisely means that there are three Targs?

[the smiling weirwood]

First of all, Alleras the Sphinx is Sarella Sand and therefore could not be baby Aegon.

Secondly, I agree with TK. I don't think there are three scions of the Targaryens left. I want to believe it's only Dany, but the Jon theory has such a ring to it that try as I might I can't completely discount it. The three heads are the means by which Dany will triumph. Triumph over who or what we can't know at this point.

[Boaz]

I read Magatsu-San's post the other day and was perplexed as well. All the other hidden Targ candidates are male... except for a few ridiculous suggestions like Cersei and Shae.

BUT...

How closely will Dany's arrival coincide with Aegon the Conqueror's? If it is to be vaguely similar then Dany and two males will suffice. But if it is to be almost an exact re-enactment, then mayhaps Dany will need one male and one female.

Could Magatsu-San be on to something here? Have we overlooked a hidden female Targaryen?

Just for the sake of being the first one to offer up a candidate and for the fact that I've not given you all any preposterous ideas in a while, I'll go first...

Arya.

1. She looks like none of her siblings. She looks like Jon. Jon might be a Targ. Therefore Arya might be a Targ.

2. Maybe the real Arya Stark was stillborn. Maybe Ned and Luwin (or maybe just Luwin under orders from Aemon) switched the stillborn with an unknown Targaryen princess in hiding.

3. The name Arya might really be Aerya... a very Targaryen sounding name.

4. Aegon's two sisters were warlike. In fact, they rode dragons into battle. Arya has already killed at least six people and ordered the deaths of dozens more.

5. Whenever Jon thought about Ygritte, he often also thought about Arya. He compared Ygritte to Arya on multiple occasions. Jon might be a Targ... so it's only natural that he feel a romantic connection to Arya.

6. We know that Jeyne Poole is now the new Arya Stark. But what if Arya Stark is not the real Arya Stark? What if the Arya we know is the second Arya (the old switched at birth ploy)? So on many levels we wonder Who is Arya? Where is Arya? Wheels within wheels...

7. Aerya Targaryen is already on the right continent to find Dany... just like her kinsman Tyraen Targaryen.